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Should I stay or should I go? POLITICAL op/ed
#11
RE: Should I stay or should I go? POLITICAL op/ed
(August 13, 2021 at 7:22 pm)Ranjr Wrote:
(August 13, 2021 at 6:53 pm)Brian37 Wrote: I am wondering if someone who just posted this is a fan of Steve Miller?

I get it though, it is a damned if you do, and damned if you don't. 
Abra ab ra Al qaeda, I want to reach out and grab ya.

I only do 70's Miller, like Swingtown.  I don't do 80's Miller.  Mostly, I was talking about the Eagles.

I hope our Muslim members chime in about the brutality facilitated by US withdrawal.

I really don't want anyone bitching about ABBA. I mean seriously, I defend ABBA.
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#12
RE: Should I stay or should I go? POLITICAL op/ed
Afghanistan is nice this time of year Brian....

You should go.....


(nod to Howard Wolowitz)
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#13
RE: Should I stay or should I go? POLITICAL op/ed
From a military officer's perspective, I'd be stunned if Russia and China didn't look favorably upon the inevitable Taliban takeover of Afghanistan. I'd throw the UK on that list, too.

It's a foregone conclusion that Pakistan is on the Taliban bandwagon; their prime minister's nickname is Taliban Khan, for Pete's sake.

I predict a watch and wait game while the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan pays lip service to desiring international recognition and nation building while terrorist harboring and human rights abuses pile up.
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#14
RE: Should I stay or should I go? POLITICAL op/ed
(August 13, 2021 at 7:22 pm)Ranjr Wrote:
(August 13, 2021 at 6:53 pm)Brian37 Wrote: I am wondering if someone who just posted this is a fan of Steve Miller?

I get it though, it is a damned if you do, and damned if you don't. 
Abra ab ra Al qaeda, I want to reach out and grab ya.

I only do 70's Miller, like Swingtown.  I don't do 80's Miller.  Mostly, I was talking about the Eagles.

I hope our Muslim members chime in about the brutality facilitated by US withdrawal.

I'd like for you to make a case for how little brutality there would have been if the US hadn't invaded. Don't get me wrong, I think that the hunt for bin Laden should have been handled through international channels, instead. The US leaving is not "facilitating" any brutality that the Taliban is going to inflict on their own people. They're going to do that, anyway. Unless you'd like for the US to stay. You can't have it both ways.
If you get to thinking you’re a person of some influence, try ordering somebody else’s dog around.
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#15
RE: Should I stay or should I go? POLITICAL op/ed
(August 13, 2021 at 8:24 pm)Fireball Wrote: I'd like for you to make a case for how little brutality there would have been if the US hadn't invaded. Don't get me wrong, I think that the hunt for bin Laden should have been handled through international channels, instead. The US leaving is not "facilitating" any brutality that the Taliban is going to inflict on their own people. They're going to do that, anyway. Unless you'd like for the US to stay. You can't have it both ways.

I'm not trying to have it any way.  We can't quantify what didn't happen.  

I can make the case that brutality happens in all Muslim societies, which is what you also think.  So, what?

(August 13, 2021 at 7:51 pm)Brian37 Wrote: I really don't want anyone bitching about ABBA. I mean seriously, I defend ABBA.

Oh bullshit.  What would do with yourself if people didn't give you shit about Bennie, Bjorn, Agnetha and Anni-Frid?
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#16
RE: Should I stay or should I go? POLITICAL op/ed
Afganistan was a case of winning the war (crippling Al Qaeda and the Taliban) but failing to establish a Liberal democracy there and Afghanistan's people will suffer for that failure. I hope we get a good number of them out of there epically the Women as their futures look particularly bleak. Dodgy
“The sun from far gives life. But get close to it and it burns anything down to ashes”

[Image: flag-ukraine_1f1fa-1f1e6.png]  Heart [Image: canada-google.png]        

 “No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
–SHIRLEY CHISHOLM


      
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#17
RE: Should I stay or should I go? POLITICAL op/ed
Are we sure North Korea’s really that much of a threat? Even when they threatened to nuke America a few years ago, it ended the same way it always does when North Korea’s saber-rattling threatens to hit something: China swoops in and plays “good cop” to whatever nation They threatened and settled it for the time being. China is all they have in terms of allies, they’re too poor to be self-sufficient in any way, and even they’ve decided that If they attack another nation and it wasn’t defensive, North Korea is on its own and its days are numbered. And for all their bluster and insanity, it looks like they know this.

(August 13, 2021 at 11:54 pm)Helios Wrote: Afganistan was a case of winning the war (crippling Al Qaeda and the Taliban) but failing to establish a Liberal democracy there and Afghanistan's people will suffer for that failure. I hope we get a good number of them out of there epically the Women as their futures look particularly bleak. Dodgy

Frankly, the root of that issue is simple: once an army’s enemy becomes a bunch of guerrilla forces with more legitimacy than the army, and literally anyone can become part of said groups, the army doesn’t have a fucking prayer. This has played out throughout history, and, if the entire history of America’s military interventions since 1945 wasn’t enough of an illustration, here’s a film called The Battle of Algiers. If you have any interest in our forever wars or Islamist terrorism beyond just waving a flag around, you need to watch this yesterday:





It’s in HD quality, it has English subtitles, and unless you’re in Belgium, France, New Caledonia, Switzerland, Korea, Germany, Luxembourg, or the French South Antarctic Lands, you have no excuse. The FLN are the ideological grandparents of all the Islamic groups they fight. The French gave the fight against the FLN their all, and they lost not because they’re cheese eating surrender monkeys (they were about the furthest thing from it), but because the decentralized nature of the FLN made it that fucking powerful. You can take out a major FLN cell, but all you’re going to do is make the people you’re supposed to protect hate you even more, and give the rebels more legitimacy. Once the population thinks the guerrilla groups are the lesser evil, defeat is almost guaranteed. There’s really only two ways out of this trap: A) you cut your losses, or B) you commit genocide. But, frankly, even with the ghastly moral prospect of a huge Afghan genocide aside, America’s pissed off so much of the Middle East that I fear the only way we can really get the job done is to commit a massive genocide against the entire region. I know that for a lot of conservatives, their pocket rocket is going off and getting all gooey at the thought, but such an option is objectively horrible, and even the Trump administration knew this would be a horrible thing.

So our options are basically to just keep doing what we’re doing and keep getting what we’re getting or getting the fuck out. And the latter’s the only option that makes sense.
Comparing the Universal Oneness of All Life to Yo Mama since 2010.

[Image: harmlesskitchen.png]

I was born with the gift of laughter and a sense the world is mad.
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#18
RE: Should I stay or should I go? POLITICAL op/ed
(August 13, 2021 at 11:55 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: Are we sure North Korea’s really that much of a threat? Even when they threatened to nuke America a few years ago, it ended the same way it always does when North Korea’s saber-rattling threatens to hit something: China swoops in and plays “good cop” to whatever nation They threatened and settled it for the time being. China is all they have in terms of allies, they’re too poor to be self-sufficient in any way, and even they’ve decided that If they attack another nation and it wasn’t defensive, North Korea is on its own and its days are numbered. And for all their bluster and insanity, it looks like they know this.

(August 13, 2021 at 11:54 pm)Helios Wrote: Afganistan was a case of winning the war (crippling Al Qaeda and the Taliban) but failing to establish a Liberal democracy there and Afghanistan's people will suffer for that failure. I hope we get a good number of them out of there epically the Women as their futures look particularly bleak. Dodgy

Frankly, the root of that issue is simple: once an army’s enemy becomes a bunch of guerrilla forces with more legitimacy than the army, and literally anyone can become part of said groups, the army doesn’t have a fucking prayer. This has played out throughout history, and, if the entire history of America’s military interventions since 1945 wasn’t enough of an illustration, here’s a film called The Battle of Algiers. If you have any interest in our forever wars or Islamist terrorism beyond just waving a flag around, you need to watch this yesterday:





It’s in HD quality, it has English subtitles, and unless you’re in Belgium, France, New Caledonia, Switzerland, Korea, Germany, Luxembourg, or the French South Antarctic Lands, you have no excuse. The FLN are the ideological grandparents of all the Islamic groups they fight. The French gave the fight against the FLN their all, and they lost not because they’re cheese eating surrender monkeys (they were about the furthest thing from it), but because the decentralized nature of the FLN made it that fucking powerful. You can take out a major FLN cell, but all you’re going to do is make the people you’re supposed to protect hate you even more, and give the rebels more legitimacy. Once the population thinks the guerrilla groups are the lesser evil, defeat is almost guaranteed. There’s really only two ways out of this trap: A) you cut your losses, or B) you commit genocide. But, frankly, even with the ghastly moral prospect of a huge Afghan genocide aside, America’s pissed off so much of the Middle East that I fear the only way we can really get the job done is to commit a massive genocide against the entire region. I know that for a lot of conservatives, their pocket rocket is going off and getting all gooey at the thought, but such an option is objectively horrible, and even the Trump administration knew this would be a horrible thing.

So our options are basically to just keep doing what we’re doing and keep getting what we’re getting or getting the fuck out. And the latter’s the only option that makes sense.
I have already watched The Battle of Algiers and i pretty much agree with you here.
“The sun from far gives life. But get close to it and it burns anything down to ashes”

[Image: flag-ukraine_1f1fa-1f1e6.png]  Heart [Image: canada-google.png]        

 “No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
–SHIRLEY CHISHOLM


      
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#19
RE: Should I stay or should I go? POLITICAL op/ed
(August 13, 2021 at 7:13 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Clearly time for the US to leave. Your presence there has produced nothing.

Boru

Nobody puts ABBA in the corner! Did I think this. or type it?

(August 13, 2021 at 7:22 pm)Ranjr Wrote:
(August 13, 2021 at 6:53 pm)Brian37 Wrote: I am wondering if someone who just posted this is a fan of Steve Miller?

I get it though, it is a damned if you do, and damned if you don't. 
Abra ab ra Al qaeda, I want to reach out and grab ya.

I only do 70's Miller, like Swingtown.  I don't do 80's Miller.  Mostly, I was talking about the Eagles.

I hope our Muslim members chime in about the brutality facilitated by US withdrawal.

Well I grew up a Budweiser fan. Never liked Miller Lite.
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#20
RE: Should I stay or should I go? POLITICAL op/ed
(August 13, 2021 at 7:23 pm)brewer Wrote: The US had little to no business being in Afghanistan to begin with. At best this should have been no more than a 5 year incursion. Staying 20 years has more than likely made the backlash that much worse.

UM WHAT?

I will be the first to say America doesn't always need to invade. And I really mean that in our history. Nam was another mistake. But sorry, one can look at what happened on 9/11/01 as no different than John Gotti. Bin Laden didn't do what he did because the west was evil. He did what every spoiled asshole does when they cant live up to their parents expectations. Bin Laden wanted to make a name for himself, even though his own family thought he was nuts. 

If one wants to argue that America should not have invaded in the first place, I get that. But sorry, I think even on a basic local level, literally neighbor to neighbor, if someone raises a fist to me, I am going to react. I'd say that 4 jets being used as bombs to kill 3,000 unarmed people is a reason to get pissed off. 

In a literal sense, if I were, which I wont, because I am not a dick, but if I were to knock on my neighbor's door and punch them in the face, I doubt very seriously that they would go, "That felt good, do that again.".

If you want to attack Islam as far a logic, I AM WITH YOU. But if you ignore that all religions are used as weapons, I will stand apposed.  

Bush was wrong in invading Afghanistan, I agree. But he could have done a drone strike from afar. I cannot blame anyone for being pissed that 4 planes were used as bombs.
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