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Current time: May 18, 2022, 4:51 am

Poll: Does the mind produce thoughts or do thoughts produce the mind?
This poll is closed.
Mind produces thoughts
26.67%
4 26.67%
Thoughts produce mind
6.67%
1 6.67%
Both
13.33%
2 13.33%
Neither
53.33%
8 53.33%
Total 15 vote(s) 100%
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Mindfulness or Mindlessness?
#31
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness?
(August 26, 2021 at 8:31 pm)Jehanne Wrote:
(August 26, 2021 at 8:27 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Yeah. Someone claimed to have solved the Theseus's boat and the mind-body problem. I was hoping to see a coherent hypothesis.

No brain = no mind.
How do you explain near death experiences?
"Imagination, life is your creation."
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#32
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness?
(August 26, 2021 at 8:08 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Still waiting for a coherent presentation of promised solutions...

Ah. Gimme a question.

The writer's block I'm having (hence seeking help here) is 'start point' or more accurately, too many start points.

I can't decide the best way to do this... bottom-up (evolution), top-down (god-like design of a model human / human model) or middle-out (generic framework first).
The PURPOSE of life is to replicate our DNA ................. (from Darwin)
The MEANING of life is the experience of living ... (from Frank Herbert)
The VALUE of life is the legacy we leave behind ..... (from observation)
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#33
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness?
Oh. That's it? Not really a fleshed out hypothesis like functionlism or epiphenomenalism.
<insert profound quote here>
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#34
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness?
(August 26, 2021 at 8:36 pm)Ahriman Wrote:
(August 26, 2021 at 8:31 pm)Jehanne Wrote: No brain = no mind.
How do you explain near death experiences?

There is nothing about them that needs explaining. In fact, all aspects of NDEs can be reproduced under artificial conditions without exception. Finally, a number of controlled experiments have tried to demonstrate veridicality; none have succeeded.
And without delay Peter went quickly out of the synagogue (assembly) and went unto the house of Marcellus, where Simon lodged: and much people followed him...And Peter turned unto the people that followed him and said: Ye shall now see a great and marvellous wonder. And Peter seeing a great dog bound with a strong chain, went to him and loosed him, and when he was loosed the dog received a man's voice and said unto Peter: What dost thou bid me to do, thou servant of the unspeakable and living God? Peter said unto him: Go in and say unto Simon in the midst of his company: Peter saith unto thee, Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And immediately the dog ran and entered in, and rushed into the midst of them that were with Simon, and lifted up his forefeet and in a loud voice said: Thou Simon, Peter the servant of Christ who standeth at the door saith unto thee: Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou most wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And when Simon heard it, and beheld the incredible sight, he lost the words wherewith he was deceiving them that stood by, and all of them were amazed. (The Acts of Peter, 9)
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#35
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness?
(August 26, 2021 at 8:39 pm)Jehanne Wrote:
(August 26, 2021 at 8:36 pm)Ahriman Wrote: How do you explain near death experiences?

There is nothing about them that needs explaining.  In fact, all aspects of NDEs can be reproduced under artificial conditions without exception.  Finally, a number of controlled experiments have tried to demonstrate veridicality; none have succeeded.
How do you know that?
"Imagination, life is your creation."
Reply
#36
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness?
(August 26, 2021 at 8:25 pm)Ahriman Wrote: Maybe we should start thinking in terms of how useful our thoughts really are......perhaps most thoughts are stupid and useless. Of course, that could just be my own mind expressing itself. But I really feel like thoughts are strange things, which ought to be ignored. If you should have a thought that actually seems intelligent, it should be recorded, in some form, as soon as possible.

Dreams are much more important than thoughts, in terms of indicators of the inner workings of one's mind. Dreams should be recorded, ideally in a dream journal. Freud had it right with the dream analysis stuff.......given more time to come to fruition, dream analysis could've very well proved to be an indispensable part of modern psychiatry.

Interesting thoughts.  Thanks.  Smile

A key aspect of human development is 'Controlled Environment'.  Consciousness as a governance/monitoring system helps support this control.

The "undiscovered country" as far as governance control are concerned ... yup... dreams.  

Could dream-control indeed be the next level of consciousness?  

And then there's the relationship between dreams and Cheese

(August 26, 2021 at 8:37 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Oh. That's it? Not really a fleshed out hypothesis like functionlism or epiphenomenalism.

It doesn't have a name yet.
The PURPOSE of life is to replicate our DNA ................. (from Darwin)
The MEANING of life is the experience of living ... (from Frank Herbert)
The VALUE of life is the legacy we leave behind ..... (from observation)
Reply
#37
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness?
(August 26, 2021 at 8:40 pm)Ahriman Wrote:
(August 26, 2021 at 8:39 pm)Jehanne Wrote: There is nothing about them that needs explaining.  In fact, all aspects of NDEs can be reproduced under artificial conditions without exception.  Finally, a number of controlled experiments have tried to demonstrate veridicality; none have succeeded.
How do you know that?
NDEs themselves aren't the greatest way to "prove" minds are separate from bodies. The key word here is *near*, death experience. If you could present a mind that continues on after a *death* experience, then you might be on to something.
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#38
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness?
(August 26, 2021 at 9:05 pm)LostLocke Wrote: ...
The key word here is *near*, death experience. If you could present a mind that continues on after a *death* experience, then you might be on to something.

Indeed.

NDE = Not Dead Experience.

Big Grin
The PURPOSE of life is to replicate our DNA ................. (from Darwin)
The MEANING of life is the experience of living ... (from Frank Herbert)
The VALUE of life is the legacy we leave behind ..... (from observation)
Reply
#39
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness?
(August 26, 2021 at 8:40 pm)Ahriman Wrote:
(August 26, 2021 at 8:39 pm)Jehanne Wrote: There is nothing about them that needs explaining.  In fact, all aspects of NDEs can be reproduced under artificial conditions without exception.  Finally, a number of controlled experiments have tried to demonstrate veridicality; none have succeeded.
How do you know that?

Jehanne failed David Carradine's practical exam final.
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem




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#40
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness?
(August 26, 2021 at 8:40 pm)Ahriman Wrote:
(August 26, 2021 at 8:39 pm)Jehanne Wrote: There is nothing about them that needs explaining.  In fact, all aspects of NDEs can be reproduced under artificial conditions without exception.  Finally, a number of controlled experiments have tried to demonstrate veridicality; none have succeeded.
How do you know that?

Dr. Michael Shermer discusses a meta-analysis of this; lots of studies (such as the AWARE studies) have looked for veridicality; nothing has been found. NDEs are worse than Big Foot.
And without delay Peter went quickly out of the synagogue (assembly) and went unto the house of Marcellus, where Simon lodged: and much people followed him...And Peter turned unto the people that followed him and said: Ye shall now see a great and marvellous wonder. And Peter seeing a great dog bound with a strong chain, went to him and loosed him, and when he was loosed the dog received a man's voice and said unto Peter: What dost thou bid me to do, thou servant of the unspeakable and living God? Peter said unto him: Go in and say unto Simon in the midst of his company: Peter saith unto thee, Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And immediately the dog ran and entered in, and rushed into the midst of them that were with Simon, and lifted up his forefeet and in a loud voice said: Thou Simon, Peter the servant of Christ who standeth at the door saith unto thee: Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou most wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And when Simon heard it, and beheld the incredible sight, he lost the words wherewith he was deceiving them that stood by, and all of them were amazed. (The Acts of Peter, 9)
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