Covid 19 conspiracies dump

[The Architect Of Fate]

Percentages only mean so much. I have a better than 99.9 percent chance of surviving covid, but that doesn't mean that covid is still not 'dangerous'.

And that 1 in 1000 chance of dying is eight times higher than the 1 in 8070 case of getting a serious side effect after the vaccine.

Ah so now we can just dismiss math because IA doesn't like the conclusion 

[Irreligious Atheist]

I'm saying that Watters' and Fox News' callous disregard of optics alone is dangerous. I know it's a metaphor, but if the event he's saying those words at attracts the sort of people who seriously wonder when their leaders are going to sanction armed violence, there's probably a good chance that they either won't notice or won't give a shit. And if there's a good chance that his intended audience is going to take it literally, I can see why someone would think that that's fucking dangerous.

I don't like how it was phrased either, talking about a kill shot, but like we both agree, it was clearly a metaphor, so that's that. When people start calling for news people to be fired because they made a shitty metaphor, you're going down a really slippery slope there and this is clearly opposition to freedom of the press. No one should threaten violence, but this happens to pretty much every single public figure, and my issue with Fauci bringing this up in congress, was that he was doing it so he could play the victim and try to change the topic from his emails, where he discusses doing a hit job on the paper of highly credentialed scientists which was also endorsed by a Nobel Prize winner.

[Rev. Rye]

We also know nothing of the long term effects of taking these vaccines, so that is another unknown that is still up in the air. I know you're going to entirely disagree with that point, and that's fine, but I take people like Dr. Robert Malone, who is one of the inventors of the MRNA technology, and many other doctors and scientists talking about this, seriously. That doesn't mean that I believe there are going to be terrible effects of the vaccines years down the line, but these highly credentialed people seem to think that this is entirely possible, so as a layperson, I'm going to at least consider what these highly credentialed scientists are saying rather than just handwaving it all away because they disagree with government agencies, who's job is literally to prevent the government from looking bad and to put things in the best light possible, and to push for a one size fits all solution, which is vaccines for all.

You do know that if we were really going to suspend release of vaccines until we're sure that there aren't huge long-term effects from the vaccine, things would probably take a needlessly long time before they could be released to the public. I don't know how long you'd say is good, but given how much you've been moving the goalposts throughout this thread, I wouldn't put it past you to say it should be decades. If Jonas Salk were listening to you in the early fifties, we'd probably still be dealing with polio and it'd still be in trial stage, and your grandchildren would be telling anyone telling anyone who said we should just release the damn vaccine that we need more time.

---

Incidentally, I decided to look more at what side effects people would be getting from the COVID-19 vaccine. And, here's what I did:

• I downloaded a table of symptoms (sorted by number of incidents) after COVID-19 vaccines from VAERS as a .txt file
  
• I imported said .txt file into Excel
  
• I moved the notes after the table to another column out of the way
  
• I hid the column for symptom codes and one of the serious codes (there were two of them)
  
• I hid the rows that counted a total amount of symptoms, serious and not, leaving only the ones that differentiated between serious cases and non-serious. If you've actually tried to search symptoms and seriousness and then sort by number of cases, you can see how much they clutter it up.
  
• I fine-tuned the percentages in the column.
  
• I added the numbers of total serious cases, total cases, and total number of doses, with percentages thereof.
  
• I added another column dividing number of cases of each symptom by total number of doses.
  
• I finally took a screenshot of the last screen (and, therefore, the most common symptoms)
  

These are the possible side effects and rates that IA is afraid of.

[Irreligious Atheist]

We also know nothing of the long term effects of taking these vaccines, so that is another unknown that is still up in the air. I know you're going to entirely disagree with that point, and that's fine, but I take people like Dr. Robert Malone, who is one of the inventors of the MRNA technology, and many other doctors and scientists talking about this, seriously. That doesn't mean that I believe there are going to be terrible effects of the vaccines years down the line, but these highly credentialed people seem to think that this is entirely possible, so as a layperson, I'm going to at least consider what these highly credentialed scientists are saying rather than just handwaving it all away because they disagree with government agencies, who's job is literally to prevent the government from looking bad and to put things in the best light possible, and to push for a one size fits all solution, which is vaccines for all.

You do know that if we were really going to suspend release of vaccines until we're sure that there aren't huge long-term effects from the vaccine, things would probably take a needlessly long time before they could be released to the public. I don't know how long you'd say is good, but given how much you've been moving the goalposts throughout this thread, I wouldn't put it past you to say it should be decades. If Jonas Salk were listening to you in the early fifties, we'd probably still be dealing with polio and it'd still be in trial stage, and your grandchildren would be telling anyone telling anyone who said we should just release the damn vaccine that we need more time.

I didn't claim the vaccine shouldn't have been released. I'm simply saying that people shouldn't be compelled to take a brand new vaccine that was put together way more quickly than any other vaccine in history. I took the risk and took the vaccine because of my asthma, so I decided it was a risk worth taking. Others don't want to take it.

Do you support 8 year olds being forced to take the vaccine or get kicked off their little league team, like is happening here in Canada? What are the chances of an 8 year old dying from covid? 1 in 500,000? And that's with most of those children having comorbidities. What's the chance of a healthy child dying from covid? 1 in many millions?

[Rev. Rye]

You do know that if we were really going to suspend release of vaccines until we're sure that there aren't huge long-term effects from the vaccine, things would probably take a needlessly long time before they could be released to the public. I don't know how long you'd say is good, but given how much you've been moving the goalposts throughout this thread, I wouldn't put it past you to say it should be decades. If Jonas Salk were listening to you in the early fifties, we'd probably still be dealing with polio and it'd still be in trial stage, and your grandchildren would be telling anyone telling anyone who said we should just release the damn vaccine that we need more time.

I didn't claim the vaccine shouldn't have been released. I'm simply saying that people shouldn't be compelled to take a brand new vaccine that was put together way more quickly than any other vaccine in history. I took the risk and took the vaccine because of my asthma, so I decided it was a risk worth taking. Others don't want to take it.

Do you support 8 year olds being forced to take the vaccine or get kicked off their little league team, like is happening here in Canada? What are the chances of an 8 year old dying from covid? 1 in 500,000? And that's with most of those children having comorbidities. What's the chance of a healthy child dying from covid? 1 in many millions?

Note: I never said that you outright claimed the vaccine shouldn't be released. I only pointed out that you keep shifting the goalposts for whether or not we know it's reasonably safe so often that I wouldn't put it past you to keep saying we don't know enough long past the point where anyone else would say enough research has been done on them.

Also, as I said before, most children are already subject to vaccine mandates, even before COVID. And even if there's no chance of them dying of COVID, there's other issues, like potentially spreading it to others.

[The Architect Of Fate]

I didn't claim the vaccine shouldn't have been released. I'm simply saying that people shouldn't be compelled to take a brand new vaccine that was put together way more quickly than any other vaccine in history. I took the risk and took the vaccine because of my asthma, so I decided it was a risk worth taking. Others don't want to take it.

Do you support 8 year olds being forced to take the vaccine or get kicked off their little league team, like is happening here in Canada? What are the chances of an 8 year old dying from covid? 1 in 500,000? And that's with most of those children having comorbidities. What's the chance of a healthy child dying from covid? 1 in many millions?

Note: I never said that you outright claimed the vaccine shouldn't be released. I only pointed out that you keep shifting the goalposts for whether or not we know it's reasonably safe so often that I wouldn't put it past you to keep saying we don't know enough long past the point where anyone else would say enough research has been done on them.

Also, as I said before, most children are already subject to vaccine mandates, even before COVID. And even if there's no chance of them dying of COVID, there's other issues, like potentially spreading it to others.

I also point out for the millionth time the vaccine wasn't rushed nor is it experimental it's based on principles that have been around since the 70s  and 80s and we were able to create the vaccine quickly because we already had the knowledge we needed of Covid 19 by studying the viruses core genetics which very similar to others in the Corona family which we have studied since the 60s.

[Spongebob]

I just heard that there's a woman driving around our town screaming blasting anti-vax screeds through a megaphone out her car window. Will the horror ever end?

[Spongebob]

I didn't claim the vaccine shouldn't have been released. I'm simply saying that people shouldn't be compelled to take a brand new vaccine that was put together way more quickly than any other vaccine in history. I took the risk and took the vaccine because of my asthma, so I decided it was a risk worth taking. Others don't want to take it.

Do you support 8 year olds being forced to take the vaccine or get kicked off their little league team, like is happening here in Canada? What are the chances of an 8 year old dying from covid? 1 in 500,000? And that's with most of those children having comorbidities. What's the chance of a healthy child dying from covid? 1 in many millions?

Yes there are a lot of people who don't want to take the vaccine and I've encountered a number of them.  One of my nephews is one; he's about 26 years old.  It wouldn't be so confounding if these people had valid reasons other than just being contrary.  I actually had an in depth conversation with a colleague who was resistant to taking the vaccine to understand his reasoning.  The most common reason I hear is that it's too new/untested or some variant of that.  This is not a logical reason.  The vaccine has gone through the exact same testing procedures that any medical treatment goes through and passed.  If it took 10 years to develop this vaccine, it would still go through the exact same process.  And in fact, the technology for developing mRNA vaccines has been in development for over a decade, so its not as new as it seems.

This concern over the speed of development is an extension of a fear that the vaccine is dangerous in some way.  But this is another product of bad logic.  Because the testing is the same and the vaccine passed with flying colors, there's no more reason to fear it than any other medicine.  We can expect some small portion of people to react badly to it, but again, all medicine has side effects so there's nothing different here.  What we do know is that the probability of getting Covid and have extremely bad results is orders of magnitude greater than any bad result from the vaccine.  So none of these fears are rational.  Anyone who refuses to get the vaccine should consider using the same logic to decide other aspects of safety in their life, such as seat belts, fire alarms, seeing their doctor if they have chest pains, getting virtually any medical treatment.

Compared to all of the bad results of people not getting vaccinated such as deaths, long covid, community spread, over stressed hospitals, social and economic restrictions, the remote possibility of having a bad reaction to the vaccine is a much smarter bet.

[Rev. Rye]

Note: I never said that you outright claimed the vaccine shouldn't be released. I only pointed out that you keep shifting the goalposts for whether or not we know it's reasonably safe so often that I wouldn't put it past you to keep saying we don't know enough long past the point where anyone else would say enough research has been done on them.

Also, as I said before, most children are already subject to vaccine mandates, even before COVID. And even if there's no chance of them dying of COVID, there's other issues, like potentially spreading it to others.

I also point out for the millionth time the vaccine wasn't rushed nor is it experimental it's based on principles that have been around since the 70s  and 80s and we were able to create the vaccine quickly because we already had the knowledge we needed of Covid 19 by studying the viruses core genetics which very similar to others in the Corona family which we have studied since the 60s.

Plus, due to the urgency created by the pandemic, there’s a shitton of people (especially compared to other diseases) working on looking for a vaccine, which made it easier to come up with a vaccine earlier.

[Spongebob]

The government helped by pouring a ton of money into the project and the cooperation between pharma companies was important, too.