Strategic Compass: Yea or Nay

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

(Not a poll because fuck all polls)

The idea of a dedicated European military independent of (but in accordance with) NATO has been on the boards for quite some time. But Putin’s blundering has moved it to to forefront of the EU’s agenda, and it looks very much like becoming a reality over the next couple of years.

Essentially, it would entail EU members each contributing personnel, money, training, and equipment - all under a unified command - to create what would de facto be a European Army to address any military incursion into Europe.

Good idea? Bad idea? Knee jerk reaction?

Boru

[arewethereyet]

Seems to me that being prepared is better than trying to gather together the people and things needed when things are already in crisis mode.

But then, I am a planner so that's my go-to answer for things like that.

[The Grand Nudger]

I think they'd be better prepared if they had a system in place (and circumstances to allow) economic warfare nowadays, rather than kinetic warfare. It'd be a huge investment either way, and at the end of the day, people are more willing to burn their dollars than they are to burn their sons. Big conventional armies aren't even the goal of current armies anymore. That had already been abandoned back when I was in. Some scary professional motherfuckers with top notch gear would probably be a better investment than a standing army of grunts - and I love grunts, but they're really not much more than a day labor pool you can recruit ncos from, anymore.

[Anomalocaris]

(Not a poll because fuck all polls)

The idea of a dedicated European military independent of (but in accordance with) NATO has been on the boards for quite some time. But Putin’s blundering has moved it to to forefront of the EU’s agenda, and it looks very much like becoming a reality over the next couple of years.

Essentially, it would entail EU members each contributing personnel, money, training, and equipment - all under a unified command - to create what would de facto be a European Army to address any military incursion into Europe.

Good idea? Bad idea? Knee jerk reaction?

Boru

Knee jerk reaction, and unworkable idea.

1.  It takes more than 5,000 men to storm the gates of Mordor.

2.  A ability of an integrated European military to function on a reasonable scale is a pipe dream because different military forces have deep ingrained traditions for dramatically different command styles.     Two separate medium to large national units from two different command traditions may be trained to effective collaborate.   But it would not work very well if their personnel were mixed into the same unit.    In such a case you would not even be able to unambiguously tell whose order rules, the senior officer giving orders, the senior officer on site, the commanding officer, or the staff officer. 

3.  until Europe can establish some mechanism for implementing a common foreign policy, the differing national objectives of EU members would nullify the chance of deploying such a force.

4.  A truly independent european military force of any scale has to diminish the importance of NATO, which would expose buried fissures between France and Germany  on the one hand, and the United States, britain and Eastern Europe States on the other.     For France and Germany, a eurocorp is tool to enable the most powerful states in Europe proper to reduce American dominance in world affairs and facilitate France and Germany’s ability to pursue more independent foreign policy from America’s goals and objectives, as well as the goals and objectives of Eastern European states.   For United States and britain, a Eurocorp would be a long term hinderance to continued american hegemony in global affairs.   For Eastern European states,  a eurocorp would seem to be a way to bind Western European states to the strategical priorities of Eastern European states.

[arewethereyet]

Who decided to attack Mordor?

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

(Not a poll because fuck all polls)

The idea of a dedicated European military independent of (but in accordance with) NATO has been on the boards for quite some time. But Putin’s blundering has moved it to to forefront of the EU’s agenda, and it looks very much like becoming a reality over the next couple of years.

Essentially, it would entail EU members each contributing personnel, money, training, and equipment - all under a unified command - to create what would de facto be a European Army to address any military incursion into Europe.

Good idea? Bad idea? Knee jerk reaction?

Boru

Knee jerk reaction, and unworkable idea.

1.  It takes more than 5,000 men to storm the gates of Mordor.

2.  A ability of an integrated European military to function on a reasonable scale is a pipe dream because different military forces have deep ingrained traditions for dramatically different command styles.     Two separate medium to large national units from two different command traditions may be trained to effective collaborate.   But it would not work very well if their personnel were mixed into the same unit.    In such a case you would not even be able to unambiguously tell whose order rules, the senior officer giving orders, the senior officer on site, the commanding officer, or the staff officer. 

3.  until Europe can establish some mechanism for implementing a common foreign policy, the differing national objectives of EU members would nullify the chance of deploying such a force.

4.  A truly independent european military force of any scale has to diminish the importance of NATO, which would expose buried fissures between France and Germany  on the one hand, and the United States, britain and Eastern Europe States on the other.     For France and Germany, a eurocorp is tool to enable the most powerful states in Europe proper to reduce American dominance in world affairs and facilitate France and Germany’s ability to pursue more independent foreign policy from America’s goals and objectives, as well as the goals and objectives of Eastern European states.   For United States and britain, a Eurocorp would be a long term hinderance to continued american hegemony in global affairs.   For Eastern European states,  a eurocorp would seem to be a way to bind Western European states to the strategical priorities of Eastern European states.

Yeah, point#4 is where I see the biggest stumbling block - the US won’t like it, not even a little bit.

Points 1-3 are pretty well answered by Nudger’s response.

Boru

[onlinebiker]

Who decided to attack Mordor?

Me, Gollum and Samwise were getting squiffed on tequila and it sounded like a good idea......


Many things do, with tequila......

[The Valkyrie]

Who decided to attack Mordor?

I thought about it.

But I've decided to just crush them with economic sanctions, seize Saruman's assets, and freeze them out of the world until they recall their orc hordes, pay reparations, apologise, and hand over the One Ring!

[GUBU]

(Not a poll because fuck all polls)

The idea of a dedicated European military independent of (but in accordance with) NATO has been on the boards for quite some time. But Putin’s blundering has moved it to to forefront of the EU’s agenda, and it looks very much like becoming a reality over the next couple of years.

Essentially, it would entail EU members each contributing personnel, money, training, and equipment - all under a unified command - to create what would de facto be a European Army to address any military incursion into Europe.

Good idea? Bad idea? Knee jerk reaction?

Boru

Good idea apart from tying it in closely with NATO. What we've found in the last few years is that the US has become too flaky to be dependable.

[The Grand Nudger]

Oh come now. The us is natos tooth and claw.