Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: March 29, 2024, 12:42 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Misconceptions about the Bible
#11
RE: Misconceptions about the Bible
Both magic books were written by people with different views than our own on slavery. It's not really surprising that we end up with paul telling slaves to be obedient to their earthly masters as to christ. The issue repeats itself with big mos magic book. Where, since slavery is present and acceptable, the best we can say is that they (all three magic books) progressively reformed and regulated an institution which they didn't fundamentally question.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#12
RE: Misconceptions about the Bible
(June 21, 2022 at 9:38 am)TheJefe817 Wrote:
(June 21, 2022 at 8:27 am)Dragonset Wrote: There's probably more but that's at least a start.

I think, with the exception perhaps of the December 25th one, I've heard one or more people argue for each of these being explicitly in scripture.  Note I didn't say these arguments were always credible, but they exist.

Oh, sure. Interpretation, like most things, is always up for debate.


Quote:I think it's all a matter of interpretation, translation and frankly just what the reader is willing to accept. 
 
I think that there are two possible ways to interpret pretty much anything. The right way or the wrong way. There are, of course, variations within either of those two possibilities, but Biblically, you are beholden to the text more than theologically. So, for example, let's say I like the concept of the immortal soul from Greek philosophy; Socrates for example. Okay. Is that the same as Ezekiel 18:4 and Matthew 10:28? No. According to those the soul dies and can be destroyed. You can argue any interpretation but that's pretty straightforward. Pretty simple. Still, yeah . . . you could argue about it ad infinitum. 


Quote:Personally, none of these move the needle much - there are plenty of other things explicitly said (or unsaid, as the case may be) which are far worse.

You mean theologically? I think the examples I gave pretty much demonstrates the invalidity of modern day Christianity. We could explore the validity of my claims as far as interpretation but if those claims can be substantiated it's a done deal. That simple. Of course, it doesn't really matter because the ideology is more important than the source, that is, the teachings of the Bible anyway.
Reply
#13
RE: Misconceptions about the Bible
@Fake Messiah The first image you posted doesn't explore the meaning of the English word day or the Hebrew word yohm. And also a few other problems I've pointed out in my response to @Jehanne. I don't want to take the chance of providing the link. 

The second image is a product of the dark ages theology based upon a Latin mistranslation, the belief, of that time, that there was a literal metallic dome surrounding Earth and the subsequent inclusion of images and misinterpretation in Biblical encyclopedias of that period. It would be like me showing you a picture of a flat earth resting on a turtle resting on four elephants and comparing that to modern science for you to defend. C'mon. 

Those ideas aren't compatible with the Bible.
Reply
#14
RE: Misconceptions about the Bible
(June 21, 2022 at 11:06 am)Dragonset Wrote:
(June 21, 2022 at 10:39 am)Jehanne Wrote: The 6-day account of Creation was printed in English Bibles for over 200 years:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ussher_chronology

Okay. But setting aside for a moment the more recent interpretations what does the Hebrew say and how does that compare to the English? If you want I can give the answer or give you the opportunity to provide your interpretation. I can give a brief heads-up . . . 

So, for example, the English day. I'll use it to signify various lengths of time. In the early days I worked the day shift 6 days a week. Now for ancient Hebrew: "This is a history of the heavens and the earth in the time of their being created, in the day that Jehovah God made earth and heaven." Genesis 2:4. 1 day. Compare that to the image provided by @Fake Messiah regarding Genesis 1:5, 8, 13, 19, 23, 31 as multiple days. The same as my English example above. Then, watch out you don't get blind sided; many years later the psalmist wrote that the 7th day continued to that day. Even much later than that Paul reiterated that it continued during his day. It continues to this day. Then you have the problem of the Hebrew word for day, yohm, being interpreted throughout the Bible in application to a few hours to any given period of time within a narrative, time indefinite. 

On top of that you have the perfect and imperfect state of the Hebrew. The Hebrew verb consists of two different states. The perfect state indicates an action which is complete, whereas the imperfect state indicates a continuous or incomplete action.

The word bara, translated as created at Genesis 1:1, is in the perfect state, which means that at this point the creation of the heavens and the Earth were completed. Later, as in verse 16 the Hebrew word asah, translated as made, is used, which is in the imperfect state, indicating continuous action. The heavens, including sun, moon, stars and Earth were complete, already created in verse 1 and an indeterminate time later they were being prepared for habitation, much the same as a bed is manufactured (complete) and made (continuous) afterwards.

You're placing yourself above the so-called authority of your Bible, by deciding for yourself what is literal and what is not.
Reply
#15
RE: Misconceptions about the Bible
(June 21, 2022 at 11:22 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Both magic books were written by people with different views than our own on slavery.

Excellent point. I would only add that the earth was given to mankind acting as steward temporarily meaning that he can do pretty much whatever he wants. If he says slavery is or isn't acceptable then that's his business, though, for Israelites and Christians there were laws regarding the proper treatment of slaves. For example, kidnapping a person to be or be sold as a slave was a capital offense. Hebrew slaves were equal and free to have their own wealth, business, etc. Even in Egypt Joseph as a slave was the second most rich and powerful person in the nation. A person could volunteer as a lifetime slave, or sell themselves temporarily as a slave to pay off a debt or theft. The non-Hebrew slave was pretty much a prisoner of war with less rights but still protected to some extent. Hebrew slaves were released, with a compensation to start them out on their own after 7 years of the 50 year jubilee, whichever came first. 


Quote:It's not really surprising that we end up with paul telling slaves to be obedient to their earthly masters as to christ.
 
Not surprising at all given that that was the law at the time. 


Quote:The issue repeats itself with big mos magic book.  Where, since slavery is present and acceptable, the best we can say is that they (all three magic books) progressively reformed and regulated an institution which they didn't fundamentally question.
  
Again, yes, due, in part, to the laws of the time.
Reply
#16
RE: Misconceptions about the Bible
@Jehanne


Quote:You're placing yourself above the so-called authority of your Bible, by deciding for yourself what is literal and what is not.


Of course I am. Sort of. Who is the so-called authority of the Bible? But the question remains, which is more accurate.
Reply
#17
RE: Misconceptions about the Bible
(June 21, 2022 at 12:21 pm)Dragonset Wrote: @Jehanne


Quote:You're placing yourself above the so-called authority of your Bible, by deciding for yourself what is literal and what is not.


Of course I am. Sort of. Who is the so-called authority of the Bible? But the question remains, which is more accurate.

The Bible is a collection of historical literature that must be understood in its cultural, political, social, economic, etc., contexts. Your OP does none of that.
Reply
#18
RE: Misconceptions about the Bible
(June 21, 2022 at 11:12 am)Dragonset Wrote:
(June 21, 2022 at 9:56 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: The Bible doesn't teach that getting an abortion is a sin.

Did they practice abortion at that time? What does sin literally mean? What about a case in which during a struggle with a man a fetus is aborted as a result? Soul for soul? Life for life?

Yes, they did practice abortion at the time.  There's a wonderful description of it in numbers, the case of a man suspecting his wife had been unfaithful.  Take her to the shaman!

If a child was lost in a struggle, you could owe the husband of the mother (or father - absent a husband) monetary damages. The only time that killing a fetus would be considered murder is, ironically, if the child dies at birth as a consequence of saving the mother. It also wouldn't be seen as murder to kill a fetus by executing the mother - there was no expectation of a stay of execution on account of a pregnancy.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#19
RE: Misconceptions about the Bible
(June 21, 2022 at 12:32 pm)Jehanne Wrote:
(June 21, 2022 at 12:21 pm)Dragonset Wrote: @Jehanne




Of course I am. Sort of. Who is the so-called authority of the Bible? But the question remains, which is more accurate.

The Bible is a collection of historical literature that must be understood in its cultural, political, social, economic, etc., contexts.  Your OP does none of that.


Are you suggesting that a correct interpretation wouldn't comport with an understanding as you describe above or are you projecting some historical literary interpretation as a gradual evolution of understanding? If I'm right my claims would be accurate and yours speculative at best. So, show me. Where and how am I wrong?
Reply
#20
RE: Misconceptions about the Bible
(June 21, 2022 at 12:33 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote:
(June 21, 2022 at 11:12 am)Dragonset Wrote: Did they practice abortion at that time? What does sin literally mean? What about a case in which during a struggle with a man a fetus is aborted as a result? Soul for soul? Life for life?

Yes, they did practice abortion at the time.  There's a wonderful description of it in numbers, the case of a man suspecting his wife had been unfaithful.  Take her to the shaman!

If a child was lost in a struggle, you could owe the husband of the mother (or father - absent a husband) monetary damages.  The only time that killing a fetus would be considered murder is, ironically, if the child dies at birth as a consequence of saving the mother.  It also wouldn't be seen as murder to kill a fetus by executing the mother - there was no expectation of a stay of execution on account of a pregnancy.

Explain the logic underlying that conclusion, please? With scriptural references.
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Without citing the bible, what marks the bible as the one book with God's message? Whateverist 143 43904 March 31, 2022 at 7:05 am
Last Post: Gwaithmir
  Illinois bible colleges: "We shouldn't have to follow state standards because bible!" Esquilax 34 7404 January 23, 2015 at 12:29 pm
Last Post: Spooky
  Misconceptions of Christian theology jstrodel 109 45736 March 11, 2013 at 11:56 am
Last Post: Mister Agenda



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)