The existence of God

[Jehanne]

Wrong! Searching for the truth involves pursuing ALL the facts, regardless of how distasteful they might be, or how they might fly in the face of beliefs you're presently comfortable with. It involves being always willing to admit that you might be wrong.

Well it's not like I can pursue ALL the facts. That would take an infinite amount of time and I don't have that kind of time.

I think that you do not wish to experience some cognitive dissonance that may occur by considering some ugly facts about reality.  Some scholars claim that God "used evolution" to bring about life and Us, but, as everyone who has studied evolution knows, evolution is simply change over time, the frequency of alleles changing within a population across time & space.  Modern evolutionary science has its foundations in Thomas Malthus, who influenced Charles Darwin (and, later on, Adolf Hitler), and Darwin (and others) recognized that more individuals are born than can be sustained by their environment, and hence, some individuals possessing certain traits that lead to reproduction are "selected" to survive, passing those traits down to succeeding generations, while others perish, often in infancy or shortly thereafter.  It is the random mutations that occur in the germ line of individuals, most of which are either deleterious or benign, with some being beneficial, that allow the gradual modification of alleles that allow certain individuals to thrive in their environment, out-competing not only members of their own species, but different species who may be using the same resources (food, water, tree bark, etc.) as them in their same environment.

The grotesque infants who are born, either due to a generic mutation in the germ line of one or both of their parents or some other in utero environment insult, certainly deserve our compassion, but, such infants have been born among mammals since they/we evolved over 200 millions years ago.  Such infants will not survive to reproductive age; as such, the deleterious mutations, if any, that they received from one or both of their parents will not get passed down to succeeding generations.  These infants have been "selected against" in the process of Darwinian natural selection.

If this is how God "does things", then, that's fine, but, that's not how I would design my creation, but, with "God", one can make whatever claims that one wants to, and that's where religion enters the realm of economics and Geo-politics, gerrymandering, etc.

[Ahriman]

Well it's not like I can pursue ALL the facts. That would take an infinite amount of time and I don't have that kind of time.

I think that you do not wish to experience some cognitive dissonance that may occur by considering some ugly facts about reality.  Some scholars claim that God "used evolution" to bring about life and Us, but, as everyone who has studied evolution knows, evolution is simply change over time, the frequency of alleles changing within a population across time & space.  Modern evolutionary science has its foundations in Thomas Malthus, who influenced Charles Darwin (and, later on, Adolf Hitler), and Darwin (and others) recognized that more individuals are born than can be sustained by their environment, and hence, some individuals possessing certain traits that lead to reproduction are "selected" to survive, passing those traits down to succeeding generations, while others perish, often in infancy or shortly thereafter.  It is the random mutations that occur in the germ line of individuals, most of which are either deleterious or benign, with some being beneficial, that allow the gradual modification of alleles that allow certain individuals to thrive in their environment, out-competing not only members of their own species, but different species who may be using the same resources (food, water, tree bark, etc.) as them in their same environment.

The grotesque infants who are born, either due to a generic mutation in the germ line of one or both of their parents or some other in utero environment insult, certainly deserve our compassion, but, such infants have been born among mammals since they/we evolved over 200 millions years ago.  Such infants will not survive to reproductive age; as such, the deleterious mutations, if any, that they received from one or both of their parents will not get passed down to succeeding generations.  These infants have been "selected against" in the process of Darwinian natural selection.

If this is how God "does things", then, that's fine, but, that's not how I would design my creation, but, with "God", one can make whatever claims that one wants to, and that's where religion enters the realm of economics and Geo-politics, gerrymandering, etc.

Not trying to be rude, and I did read the whole thing, but did you have a point?

[Mister Agenda]

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain from an honest search for the truth. It's too bad you haven't learned that.

Please. You don't know what I've done in search of truth. Looking up revolting images is just tasteless and does not qualify as truth seeking.

You could always take our word that not all babies are born with their eyes where they're supposed to be.

[Jehanne]

I think that you do not wish to experience some cognitive dissonance that may occur by considering some ugly facts about reality.  Some scholars claim that God "used evolution" to bring about life and Us, but, as everyone who has studied evolution knows, evolution is simply change over time, the frequency of alleles changing within a population across time & space.  Modern evolutionary science has its foundations in Thomas Malthus, who influenced Charles Darwin (and, later on, Adolf Hitler), and Darwin (and others) recognized that more individuals are born than can be sustained by their environment, and hence, some individuals possessing certain traits that lead to reproduction are "selected" to survive, passing those traits down to succeeding generations, while others perish, often in infancy or shortly thereafter.  It is the random mutations that occur in the germ line of individuals, most of which are either deleterious or benign, with some being beneficial, that allow the gradual modification of alleles that allow certain individuals to thrive in their environment, out-competing not only members of their own species, but different species who may be using the same resources (food, water, tree bark, etc.) as them in their same environment.

The grotesque infants who are born, either due to a generic mutation in the germ line of one or both of their parents or some other in utero environment insult, certainly deserve our compassion, but, such infants have been born among mammals since they/we evolved over 200 millions years ago.  Such infants will not survive to reproductive age; as such, the deleterious mutations, if any, that they received from one or both of their parents will not get passed down to succeeding generations.  These infants have been "selected against" in the process of Darwinian natural selection.

If this is how God "does things", then, that's fine, but, that's not how I would design my creation, but, with "God", one can make whatever claims that one wants to, and that's where religion enters the realm of economics and Geo-politics, gerrymandering, etc.

Not trying to be rude, and I did read the whole thing, but did you have a point?

You don't like to consider disconfirming evidence, the antithesis of modern science.

[Ahriman]

Not trying to be rude, and I did read the whole thing, but did you have a point?

You don't like to consider disconfirming evidence, the antithesis of modern science.

I was never much of a science geek.

[zebo-the-fat]

Not sure about eyes, but I know of one person who was born with only half a brain (literaly one half missing, just a space in her skull) Ther's your perfect creation!

[Foxaèr]

The irony of theistically claiming the perfection of creation isn't lost on me. They don't actually believe their own nonsense. They are perfectly aware of how imperfect everything is. Therefore, to deal with the cognitive dissonance, they conceptually and imaginatively created a perfect god whose creation must also be perfect. And when we mean atheists point out the imperfection, the delusional theists clamp down on the lies of perfection.

[Jehanne]

You don't like to consider disconfirming evidence, the antithesis of modern science.

I was never much of a science geek.

You don't need to be -- watch Cosmos.

[Angrboda]

Not sure about eyes, but I know of one person who was born with only half a brain (literaly one half missing, just a space in her skull) Ther's your perfect creation!

You have no proof Ahriman has half a brain!

[Ahriman]

Not sure about eyes, but I know of one person who was born with only half a brain (literaly one half missing, just a space in her skull) Ther's your perfect creation!

You have no proof Ahriman has half a brain!

I'm smarter than you and everyone you know.