The Controversy Over the Ethnicity of Cleopatra VII

[Secular Elf]

Some of you may have heard about the recent dustup over Netflix's new "documentary" series making an Afrocentric claim that Cleopatra VII, the last ruler of an independent Egypt, was a black woman, despite established known evidence to the contrary.  In case there are those who have not heard of it yet, here is a link to a report by Time Magazine: https://time.com/6273435/cleopatra-race-debate-netflix/

Here is a link to a deep dive into the genealogy of the Ptolemaic Dynasty and what is actually known about Cleopatra's ethnicity: Was Cleopatra Black? The Truth About Cleopatra's Ancestry https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3d1c4l1pgM

And finally, here is a link to an artist's rendition of what Cleopatra VII may have looked like, based on available evidence, using photoshop: What did Cleopatra Look Like? Facial Reconstructions Revealed, with History. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRJe99IipC4

[Rev. Rye]

I can understand the desire to showcase the accomplishments of darker-skinned people, and the desire to show the world that some historical figures might not have been as lily-white as previously claimed to be.

That said, from what I've been able to gather, Cleopatra most likely wasn't black. Most of her ancestors were Greek, with some Syrian from Cleopatra I, the last bit of non-Ptolemaic genetic material in her bloodline. At most, she'd probably be a bit brown.

Also, I'm surprised how few popular sources point out that Cleopatra's family tree was basically a stump.

Seriously, there's loads of Ancient Egyptian pharaohs who probably could have passed for black. Hell, you could have even gone with some other female pharaohs like Hatshepsut and Nefertiti. Indeed, if you were more interested in something closer to the era of Caesar, Amanirenas was the Queen of Kush (in modern-day Sudan) shortly after Cleopatra and Antony killed themselves and even tried to take over Egypt herself. She was unsuccessful, but she certainly held her own against Caesar Augustus.

[Anomalocaris]

Why would anyone want to lay claim to a queen who was the product of 300 years of inbreeding, married and murdered her own brother, lost the biggest naval battle for 1500 years, and brought down the curtains on her own dynasty?

isn’t it a bit like flippantly laying claim to anything that appear shiny without regard to what is actually underneath?

[no one]

The hooman's attention span isn't longer than, "ohh, shiny".

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

I find myself unable to care very much about the genetic make-up of a Queen dead for more than two millennia. It might be the least important thing about her.

Boru

[The Grand Nudger]

Why would anyone want to lay claim to a queen who was the product of 300 years of inbreeding, married and murdered her own brother, lost the biggest naval battle for 1500 years, and brought down the curtains on her own dynasty?

Right?  As a cultural touchstone she's none of that and to "own" her is to possess something else altogether, ofc.

That said, this shit is nonsense to it's core.  Cleopatra was obviously black.  Being greek doesn't help with that....

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Why would anyone want to lay claim to a queen who was the product of 300 years of inbreeding, married and murdered her own brother, lost the biggest naval battle for 1500 years, and brought down the curtains on her own dynasty?

isn’t it a bit like flippantly laying claim to anything that appear shiny without regard to what is actually underneath?

To be fair, she didn’t lose Actium. That was all on Antony.

Boru

[The Architect Of Fate]

I find it hilarious anyone cares. Another non controversy.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

I find it hilarious anyone cares. Another non controversy.

You fight culture wars to keep people from noticing that what’s really needed is a class war.

Boru