Y Chromosomal Adam and Mitochondrial Eve: Polygenism and probabilistic considerations

[Nishant Xavier]

I am constrained by the no link rule for references, but I will briefly outline why the Truth of this matter is quite different from what Liberals commonly claim about it. First, let's begin with what both sides agree on:

1. Firstly, every human male alive today was found to have descended - derived his Y-Chromosome - from a Historical Figure in the past, whom researchers called Y-Chromosomal Adam. That means, at a minimum, that every other man beside Y-Chromosomal Adam, if they existed, must conveniently have had their descendants die out in the male line.

2. Secondly, the same is true for every human female/every woman. Every woman alive today derives her Mitochondrial DNA from Mitochondrial Eve. Once more, by yet another of those naturalistic miracles, it just so conveniently and inexplicably happens that every single woman descended from every single woman other than M-Eve (of whom there should be billions) died out in the female line. 

3. Consider this: the world's population just recently crossed 8 BN. Let's approximate there are 4 BN males and 4 BN females. Logically, if humanity either began, or at one time was reduced to even just at least 2 couples, 4 people (leave aside the 10000 or so they claim), would you not expect, roughly, more or less, there to be 2 BN descended from each of those 4 people today? Yes, of course you should, for we have assumed nothing about either couple, and thus their offspring or progeny should be more or less uniformly distributed among living humans today. So why aren't they? Why don't we find Billions of people with Y-chromosomes or M-Dna other than from this Y-Adam and M-Eve?

4. Polygenists will tell us that Y-Adam and M-Eve were allegedly not the only people alive at the time, but they have never proved this. If indeed it were so, we would be willing to consider if it there solid evidence for that Truth, as there would be for any Truth. But there isn't. 

5. Again, consider the simple thought experiment. Let's say, in addition to Adam and Eve, A&E, there were allegedly, Betty and Charles. And even that supposedly, to take their polygenist theory as far as they do, that Adam supposedly wasn't married to Eve, let's assume Adam and Betty were a couple, and similarly Charles and Eve. This is a slight simplification, as polygenists propose far wilder things; but this suffices to show the absurdities to which polygenism would lead to. So, the question, where are the Billions of men with Y-Chromosomes from Charles? with M-DNA from Betty? Some simple probabilistic calculations would show that, given what we observe, it's vanishingly unlikely this hypothetical Charles and Betty ever existed. It's perfectly reasonable, on the basis of observational evidence, to infer that all men today are descended from Adam, because Adam was the only man existing at the time, and all women today are descended from M-Eve, because M-Eve was the only woman at the time. If I'm wrong, pls explain why with reasons.

I'm willing to consider polygenism if there are good reasons to think it's the Truth. If we had billions of women with M-DNA from women other than M-Eve, or similarly with men, that would be good, solid evidence in favor of polygenism. But the observational evidence is vastly different from that, and thus clearly favors monogenism.

Let's Debate.
God Bless,
Xavier.

[Nay_Sayer]

Why'd you get kicked off your previous forum?

[Nay_Sayer]

Before anyone answers consider the following;

1: Xavier had the same M.O elsewhere making many topics and then pitting himself against everyone.

2: He has a very preset script and will not answer you unless your reply can comply with one of his pre-written replies

3: When cornered enough he will leave the thread, for the most part, and make a new one.

[Anomalocaris]

the fact that every living person can trace their genetic heritage to a single male or female ancestor ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY does not mean every other genetic lineage that may have existed at the time died out.    it just means those other lineages did not spread their wild oats as widely as that of the universal male or female ancestor,   so these lineages may be reside in some living persons but not others.

whatever gene made you the christian idiot you are didn’t come the most recent male or female ancestors we share, but from some congenitally conceited dimwit in their hunter gatherer camps, whose genes he or she inflicted upon you, but spared me.

end of debate, and god does not bless you nor any other confidently gullible idiots like you

[The Architect Of Fate]

There was never was an Adam or an Eve 

[Deesse23]

Once more, by yet another of those naturalistic miracles, it just so conveniently and inexplicably happens that every single woman descended from every single woman other than M-Eve (of whom there should be billions) died out in the female line. 

The fact that you are too stupid to understand trivial facts, does not mean the facts is false. It just means you are stupid. Like usual.
There are no miracles involved. Really, m-Eve is a trivial fact once you understood the very basics of Archaeogenetics.

And from this point on i guess we can ignore the rest of your drivel, because: Garbage in, garbage out. Like usual

But lets grant you for a second that evolutionary biology is not entirely correct: That does not mean "goddidit". Like usual.

Let's Debate.
God Bless,
Xavier.

You are in no way intellectually equipped nor intellectually honest enough to debate anyone here.

[arewethereyet]

I am constrained by the no link rule for references, but I will briefly outline why the Truth of this matter is quite different from what Liberals commonly claim about it. First, let's begin with what both sides agree on:

1. Firstly, every human male alive today was found to have descended - derived his Y-Chromosome - from a Historical Figure in the past, whom researchers called Y-Chromosomal Adam. That means, at a minimum, that every other man beside Y-Chromosomal Adam, if they existed, must conveniently have had their descendants die out in the male line.

2. Secondly, the same is true for every human female/every woman. Every woman alive today derives her Mitochondrial DNA from Mitochondrial Eve. Once more, by yet another of those naturalistic miracles, it just so conveniently and inexplicably happens that every single woman descended from every single woman other than M-Eve (of whom there should be billions) died out in the female line. 

3. Consider this: the world's population just recently crossed 8 BN. Let's approximate there are 4 BN males and 4 BN females. Logically, if humanity either began, or at one time was reduced to even just at least 2 couples, 4 people (leave aside the 10000 or so they claim), would you not expect, roughly, more or less, there to be 2 BN descended from each of those 4 people today? Yes, of course you should, for we have assumed nothing about either couple, and thus their offspring or progeny should be more or less uniformly distributed among living humans today. So why aren't they? Why don't we find Billions of people with Y-chromosomes or M-Dna other than from this Y-Adam and M-Eve?

4. Polygenists will tell us that Y-Adam and M-Eve were allegedly not the only people alive at the time, but they have never proved this. If indeed it were so, we would be willing to consider if it there solid evidence for that Truth, as there would be for any Truth. But there isn't. 

5. Again, consider the simple thought experiment. Let's say, in addition to Adam and Eve, A&E, there were allegedly, Betty and Charles. And even that supposedly, to take their polygenist theory as far as they do, that Adam supposedly wasn't married to Eve, let's assume Adam and Betty were a couple, and similarly Charles and Eve. This is a slight simplification, as polygenists propose far wilder things; but this suffices to show the absurdities to which polygenism would lead to. So, the question, where are the Billions of men with Y-Chromosomes from Charles? with M-DNA from Betty? Some simple probabilistic calculations would show that, given what we observe, it's vanishingly unlikely this hypothetical Charles and Betty ever existed. It's perfectly reasonable, on the basis of observational evidence, to infer that all men today are descended from Adam, because Adam was the only man existing at the time, and all women today are descended from M-Eve, because M-Eve was the only woman at the time. If I'm wrong, pls explain why with reasons.

I'm willing to consider polygenism if there are good reasons to think it's the Truth. If we had billions of women with M-DNA from women other than M-Eve, or similarly with men, that would be good, solid evidence in favor of polygenism. But the observational evidence is vastly different from that, and thus clearly favors monogenism.

Let's Debate.
God Bless,
Xavier.

This is not brief.

Also, not being able to post links yet doesn't mean you get to copy/paste a wall of text that would have been in the link.

Stop it.

[brewer]

I'll stick this here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-chromosomal_Adam

Hmmm,....... both more than 100,000 years ago, way before your imaginary diety created earth/humans according to your 'truth' book.

Truth my ass.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

What is it we don't feed?

[Angrboda]

What is it we don't feed?

Raccoons? Pigeons? The fish?