Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
April 18, 2011 at 8:45 am (This post was last modified: April 18, 2011 at 8:51 am by JohnDG.)
Quote:Is it really more reasonable to think that there's an advanced extraterrestrial civilisation travelling for thousands upon thousands of years through the cosmos just to teach fledgling civilisations how to build big stone triangles, than it is to think that a few civilisations happened to discover vaguely similar building techniques within a few centuries of one another?
Uhh no, can you refresh my memory where I said something about pyramids? Why don't you enlighten me on this missguided attempt that doesn't remotely come close to what I said. When did "I" specifically say anything about pyramids? Maybe you meant it as an example, but an example I wasn't trying to explain, because I was saying their minds would be different.
All I really said is you can't understand the mind or motives of something that is not even vaguely simular to you. Just because you wouldn't do it doesnt mean somebody else wouldn't. Or does everything go the way you want it to? Because everything that happens comes to you first and says hey can i do this?
This forum is of the possobilities, not absolute truth.
Live every day as if already dead, that way you're not disappointed when you are.
April 18, 2011 at 8:55 am (This post was last modified: April 18, 2011 at 8:56 am by Napoléon.)
(April 18, 2011 at 8:43 am)orogenicman Wrote:
Quote:there's plenty of possibilities as orogenicman has already proven
Actually, I was pointing out that the possibilities are rather limited, since all of them involve a select few geologic processes slightly mitigated by human activities, none of them involving E.T.
You say that you've been looking for a long time for information on that mountain. Have you tried contacting any geology departments in Peru? It seems to me (and I could be wrong) that you've been asking others to do your homework for you. Here are a few lists of Peruvian universities:
i haven't been asking others to do homework for me at all. i was told by summerqueen to contact you, because you're the resident expert on geology. if you're going to get snotty whenever someone asks you for help then why respond at all? in my opinion after researching mesas and the like the mountain i viewed did not look like it was one *correction*/ did not look like ones which i have seen. but then again, I AM NOT A GEOLOGIST. i am not going to devote every second of my life trying to find the information to this mountain, and i'm not going to be contacting people in peru until i go there some point in my life. which as i've already mentioned i will be doing.
i'm only 18 years old so as you may have guessed i haven't had as much time like yourself to be studying in depth geology and the area around nazca. this is why i came to someone like yourself because you have the benefit of experience and knowledge, yet you seem more intent on dismissing someone like me who 'has not done his homework' than showing some genuine attitude towards helping.
i am sorry if i took what you said out of context btw, that was not the intent.
April 18, 2011 at 9:17 am (This post was last modified: April 18, 2011 at 9:18 am by orogenicman.)
(April 18, 2011 at 8:55 am)Napoleon666 Wrote:
(April 18, 2011 at 8:43 am)orogenicman Wrote:
Quote:there's plenty of possibilities as orogenicman has already proven
Actually, I was pointing out that the possibilities are rather limited, since all of them involve a select few geologic processes slightly mitigated by human activities, none of them involving E.T.
You say that you've been looking for a long time for information on that mountain. Have you tried contacting any geology departments in Peru? It seems to me (and I could be wrong) that you've been asking others to do your homework for you. Here are a few lists of Peruvian universities:
i haven't been asking others to do homework for me at all. i was told by summerqueen to contact you, because you're the resident expert on geology. if you're going to get snotty whenever someone asks you for help then why respond at all? in my opinion after researching mesas and the like the mountain i viewed did not look like it was one *correction*/ did not look like ones which i have seen. but then again, I AM NOT A GEOLOGIST. i am not going to devote every second of my life trying to find the information to this mountain, and i'm not going to be contacting people in peru until i go there some point in my life. which as i've already mentioned i will be doing.
i'm only 18 years old so as you may have guessed i haven't had as much time like yourself to be studying in depth geology and the area around nazca. this is why i came to someone like yourself because you have the benefit of experience and knowledge, yet you seem more intent on dismissing someone like me who 'has not done his homework' than showing some genuine attitude towards helping.
i am sorry if i took what you said out of context btw, that was not the intent.
Dude, from what I've seen from the replies here, I appear to be the ONLY one offering advice on how to find the information you are looking for. My advice would be to not burn your bridges at least bnefore you've crossed them. You don't have to go to Peru to find the information you seek. All you need to is contact the people with the information you seek. The people with that information are going to be at one of the universities listed in those links. If I was trying to find out information on that mountain, that's where I'd start (I would actually start in my local university library, then try to contact someone at one of those universities).
I understand that you are young (I'm 52 with 20 years experience as a geologist). I'm not putting you down for lack of experience. We all have to start somewhere. In the mean time, something you can do that will help you to think abut these things in a more critical light would be to read the information at the following web site. It will help you to find flaws in your own arguments as well as in those of others, so you can start to hone your reasoning skills. If you decide to go to college, knowing how to think critically will be a huge asset.
'The difference between a Miracle and a Fact is exactly the difference between a mermaid and seal. It could not be expressed better.'
-- Samuel "Mark Twain" Clemens
"I think that in the discussion of natural problems we ought to begin not with the scriptures, but with experiments, demonstrations, and observations".
- Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
"In short, Meyer has shown that his first disastrous book was not a fluke: he is capable of going into any field in which he has no training or research experience and botching it just as badly as he did molecular biology. As I've written before, if you are a complete amateur and don't understand a subject, don't demonstrate the Dunning-Kruger effect by writing a book about it and proving your ignorance to everyone else! "
I'm back, and I have a lot of gardening to do tonight, so I'm going to try and address this all slowly throughout the work day.
(April 15, 2011 at 5:05 am)Napoleon666 Wrote: Religion has been part of the human race for thousands of years, no one can deny this, however the average person never seems to question (or at least i havent heard them shouting loud enough) where exactly these religious beliefs came from. i mean sure people might say "oh they just came from some psycho who convinced everyone around him", but no one comes up with a real idea. so here's food for thought... what if it was indeed extra-terrestrial beings which influenced religion?
Actually, people HAVE asked this question. I'm surprised you have to say "I haven't heard them shouting loud enough." A quick google search would bring up just about any answer you want. What you are asking is partially a biological question (as scientists have suggested that our brains are hardwired to be 'believers') and partially psychological. The need to have an explanation for the unexplained is a human condition. It can be as personal as "Why did my girlfriend suddenly dump me?" to profound wondering about our place in the universe. Both inspire great leaps of imagination. It's not as simple as "some pyscho influenced those around him."
Further, if you're going to argue that the average person never questions where it came from, I would argue back that the "average" person (if statistics are to be believed) is a theist and therefore thinks their religion came from God. I also think the average person is too busy trying to make rent, feed kids, and get laid to bother with the bigger questions on a regular basis. I actually like this kind of stuff, and I held off from really reading your posts because of the first, and dismissed them at the end of Friday because of the third. I'm not disparaging on the average person's intelligence with that argument either - I just know that as a human I and several very intelligent friends of mine would rather be calling God's name than wondering how the concept of a deity came about.
(April 15, 2011 at 5:05 am)Napoleon666 Wrote: for starters there are countless images drawn by cave men and ancient civilisations which seem to depict some space faring creatures, an example of it i will try and post.
I asked you to look up Kenny Feder. I don’t believe he’s made the point on Nat Geo, but he did a spectacular interview on the podcast Monster Talk in which he discussed whether the mention of giants in mythology had any factual basis. There was a lot of great stuff there unrelated to this post, but he did say something to the effect of “If humans want something to be impressive, they make it really small, or really big. They make it come from unknown places.” We don’t live in the sky. We inhabited caves after a fashion, but could not live in the deepest parts of them without a lot of fire (not practical in an enclosed space, right?) We can’t live under water. Even mountain peaks were, as they say, “alien” territory until we developed the skills to climb them all successfully. We didn’t understand these places, so we gave them to our fictional characters who needed to be something OTHER than human. It makes perfect sense that we’d have otherworldly ideas of creatures that could fly like the birds we saw in the sky. You’ll notice the ways these gods and creatures have flight changes based on the technology around at the time, the creatures around them, and the terrain. Why then did some of it look like spaceships? I’ll get back to that in a bit.
(April 15, 2011 at 5:30 am)JohnDG Wrote: Civilization has actually been around longer than you think, there are ancient cities under the sea, i doubt their remnants of atlantis but they are certainly proof that we are much older then what is commanly believed.
I’m sure this has already been answered, but cities have been known to be buried by the waves during events such as earthquakes, eruptions, tsunamis, etc. Tiahuanaco has been “debunked” as a possibility for alien intervention. If you want a good starting point, check out Brian Dunning’s podcast “Skeptoid”. You can read a transcript of it on his website. He always includes outside references and links. That should start you on your way.
(April 15, 2011 at 5:58 am)JohnDG Wrote: Most of it is actually concidered forbidden archeology, because it goes against everything we believe in, especially religion.
The second someone starts claiming “forbidden this” or “forbidden that” you should, as Dunning always says, “be skeptical.”
The search for knowledge is not hindered by historians or scientists. It’s fucked up by religious leaders and politicians who have personal stakes in making sure some knowledge is promoted while some is suppressed. It’s economics with them. Lots of scientists do what they do not because they’re going to get rich off of it, but because they have a burning need to know the truth. It wouldn’t “blow their minds” to have aliens revealed to them – don’t you think they’d leap at the chance to talk to a race that had known us since our prehistory, so they could ask questions about ourselves, and equally as important, about THEM? Think of the information exchange that could go on!
Evolution would be considered “forbidden” knowledge because it goes against what religious fucknuts believe in, but you notice that no one has a real problem accessing this information despite church efforts to suppress it. If ancient alien theory held up under scrutiny like other true science and history does, it wouldn’t be dismissed as fringe. That’s the way it works.
(April 15, 2011 at 5:58 am)JohnDG Wrote: I lived in arizona most of my life and i was there and saw the ufo that flew over and it was even tailed by helicopters and jeeps.
Pics, or it didn’t happen. And it better have been floating slowly. I had a Jeep, and while she was the love of my life she couldn’t hit 70mph without complaining. You don’t tail a UFO with a fucking Jeep.
(April 15, 2011 at 5:05 am)Napoleon666 Wrote: firstly i want to draw your attention to the pyramids. now can you explain to me how in three different continents at the same time three different civilisations were creating these wonders which we cannot replicate today? they had no way of communicating with each other so that would leave two possibilities
[facepalm]
We can’t replicate them? We can put domes over our sports arenas and build the Empire State Building and whatever that huge fuck building in Dubai is…but we can’t replicate the pyramids, of any kind?
You’re demeaning the human race. We could replicate them…but why? We don’t have the religious, socio-economic, or political structure of ancient Egypt or the meso Americans. We don’t have a need to build a gigantic structure completely from stone except to say “Booyah, we did it” and who has the kind of money to fund that, or wants to? We don’t build things like that now for the same reasons we don’t build castles or freaking stone henges. We have more efficient, safer, and cheaper ways to serve the same functions any of those massive undertakings were required for. Also…a triangle is a mathematically good shape all on its own. It only requires a human mind to understand mathematics and figure out that it can be used to create a stable structure.
(April 15, 2011 at 5:05 am)Napoleon666 Wrote: on top of that how does this civilisation draw an image of a spider which is only viewable under a microscope without the use of A MICROSCOPE?!?
Wtf are you on about? Can you give me a link to this please? Or is it what was already suggested?
(April 15, 2011 at 5:05 am)Napoleon666 Wrote: interesting point, there are a whole bunch of civilisations which had knowledge of the cosmos way before we did. many of them had medicines etc which worked well before we discovered cures to diseases etc.
It was an interesting point, and I’d like to further point something out: all of that knowledge was from humans steadily observing the cosmos. It was much darker then, without billions of people living under electricity. But as a child of my time and a budding horticulturalist, I’ll say we confirmed what these people thought, but also deepened the knowledge they had because we have much better technology than they. Do you think if knowledge of the cosmos were handed to them by aliens, it would be as sparse as it really was back then compared to now? There are plenty of medicines derived from plants and minerals back then, but we’ve only confirmed the ones that did work because now we can see them under scientific observation and a microscope – and we’ve debunked plenty of others.
(April 15, 2011 at 5:05 am)Napoleon666 Wrote: it's almost like you guys have yourselves a little club or something and the rest of us are unworthy of posting on this forum eh?
Stop claiming you’re being ragged on – you walked in with a theory, now you’re being pitted against everyone else to see if it can be falsified. This is what historians and scientists have to deal with in real life. If your ideas don’t hold water against our onslaught, or you can’t come up with evidence to support them, there’s a problem with your research and theory. It’s not our job to be soft on you.
Further, a discussion forum is there to refine your discussion skills. Think of this as trial by fire. The rest of us had to prove our mettle, each and all.
(April 15, 2011 at 5:05 am)Napoleon666 Wrote: in all honesty i feel as though i'm being misjudged before anyone thought of asking what my point of view was.
Then you phrased your original post incorrectly, sug.
(April 15, 2011 at 5:05 am)Napoleon666 Wrote: seeking to make light of an argument in order to divert attention away from your own false points does not make you look smart. or right for that matter.
Get a sense of humor. Really. And there I AM being harsh. You’ll need it, or you won’t survive here. We none of us take each other THAT seriously. We’re words on a screen, ffs.
A few things:
Revvy was talking about the Aztecs when he mentioned blood sacrifices. We have statements from conquistadores and missionaries. We also have their own archaeological evidence.
I have a book called “Ancient Mysteries”. I also have a book called “Ancient Inventions”. The second is more scientific than the first, but the first does a good job at citing both woo-woo AND factual explanations for how the Nazca lines could have been formed and why. You seem to enjoy the woo, so I’ll post a link to it on Amazon.
I would hazard a lot of money on the guess that humans with current agendas and modern mindsets are seeing what they want to see on the “flying” wall depictions.
Further, there are little men with large eyes who capture humans, paralyze them or hypnotize them, give them gifts, steal things from them, sometimes impregnate women or play dirty tricks on travelers…only in especially western Gaelic countries we used to call them “the good folk”. The elves, and the fae. Some lived in the air, some under water, and some in the ground. Some of them were even green.
It was a sad day when so much of the earth had been explored that kelpies and brownies were relegated to child stories (or in the case of the Meredith Gentry books, a great series about Sidhe sex and intrigue), and the unexplained had to move to the stars with the space race.
So there. I’ve taken time out of my busy schedule just for you. I hope you find this information constructive enough.
PS – I can’t help my feeling of superiority. I’m the Queen, for one, and I’m a Jew.
PPS – just because you seem to need things explained, that was a joke.
April 18, 2011 at 10:36 am (This post was last modified: April 18, 2011 at 10:38 am by orogenicman.)
Napoleon666 Wrote:firstly i want to draw your attention to the pyramids. now can you explain to me how in three different continents at the same time three different civilisations were creating these wonders which we cannot replicate today? they had no way of communicating with each other so that would leave two possibilities
It is well documented how the great pyramids in Egypt were built. We even know where the material came from. Where, you ask? Well, it took a geologist to find it. Behind the pyramids is the remnants of a limestone quarry, complete with unfinished pyramid building stones, groves in the ledges where the rocks were carved out, and the rubble hauled back into it from the ramps they built to haul the stones in place. The rubble, which originally came from the stone work itself, nearly filled in the quarry, which is why it took so long for anyone to figure out the significance of that site.
You see. With no cars, no television, and no internet, you suddenly find you have time do make all kinds of things.
'The difference between a Miracle and a Fact is exactly the difference between a mermaid and seal. It could not be expressed better.'
-- Samuel "Mark Twain" Clemens
"I think that in the discussion of natural problems we ought to begin not with the scriptures, but with experiments, demonstrations, and observations".
- Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
"In short, Meyer has shown that his first disastrous book was not a fluke: he is capable of going into any field in which he has no training or research experience and botching it just as badly as he did molecular biology. As I've written before, if you are a complete amateur and don't understand a subject, don't demonstrate the Dunning-Kruger effect by writing a book about it and proving your ignorance to everyone else! "
April 18, 2011 at 10:39 am (This post was last modified: April 18, 2011 at 10:44 am by lilphil1989.)
(April 18, 2011 at 8:45 am)JohnDG Wrote: Uhh no, can you refresh my memory where I said something about pyramids? Why don't you enlighten me on this missguided attempt that doesn't remotely come close to what I said. When did "I" specifically say anything about pyramids? Maybe you meant it as an example, but an example I wasn't trying to explain, because I was saying their minds would be different.
The reason for the line in the middle of my post was to seperate it into two halves. The first was a response to you; the second wasn't. So you responded to a part that wasn't directed at you, and ignored the part that was. That's probably my fault, it wasn't particularly obvious.
So just to be absolutely clear, this:
Me! Wrote:Maybe there's a teapot orbiting Mars that can't be seen with our telescopes. It's not impossible. That doesn't mean we need to give any serious thought to Russell's teapot.
Your arguments all seem to take the form:
"I will demonstrate that alien astronauts are plausible.
They are not impossible.
QED."
is my response to your post. Apologies for any confusion!
(April 18, 2011 at 8:45 am)JohnDG Wrote: This forum is of the possobilities, not absolute truth.
I don't know where you're getting the idea that I've claimed absolute certainty or impossibility of anything. It isn't from the content of my posts, that's for sure.
Galileo was a man of science oppressed by the irrational and superstitious. Today, he is used by the irrational and superstitious who claim they are being oppressed by science - Mark Crislip
(April 18, 2011 at 10:47 am)thesummerqueen Wrote: Another PS, this time to Oro -
If sexy were on a 1-10 scale based on explanatory postings that kick ass, you'd be an 11. Just sayin'.
So you are saying that older men with poor spelling are a turn on? Cool!
'The difference between a Miracle and a Fact is exactly the difference between a mermaid and seal. It could not be expressed better.'
-- Samuel "Mark Twain" Clemens
"I think that in the discussion of natural problems we ought to begin not with the scriptures, but with experiments, demonstrations, and observations".
- Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
"In short, Meyer has shown that his first disastrous book was not a fluke: he is capable of going into any field in which he has no training or research experience and botching it just as badly as he did molecular biology. As I've written before, if you are a complete amateur and don't understand a subject, don't demonstrate the Dunning-Kruger effect by writing a book about it and proving your ignorance to everyone else! "
@orogenicman i thank you for your information, i didnt mean to say you wasn't giving any constructive info just the manner in which you were providing it seemed to make me feel as though i was a bumbling nincompoop who didnt know anything about the subject. which i most probably am, but still it's not nice realising that when someone who knows what they're talking about puts you to shame
as i said before i do agree and understand your points. the mountain in question is almost certainly a geological phenomena which you have suggested, not created by humans or E.T.
i guess my problem is indeed that i try and find reasons for things without properly assessing them. would you believe i actually have an AS level qualification in critical thinking? i know right! the problem is i spent more time dealing with political arguments and arguments which dealt with opinions than those which operate in the realm of knowledge and fact. this is probably where i am going wrong.
thanks for the posts anyways, sorry if i come across as a n00b
![[Image: Untitled2_zpswaosccbr.png]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i1140.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn569%2Fthesummerqueen%2FUntitled2_zpswaosccbr.png)
