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Greetings
#31
RE: Greetings
(April 22, 2011 at 3:54 pm)Napoleon666 Wrote: wtf are you talking about? i ask you to find some evidence to prove that your religion is anything but bullshit and you come back talking about genetically modified crops and debt...Confused Fall

I just gave you specific examples.... you want evidence, how about myself and millions of others..

We're not neck-deep in heavy debt, we have a healthy liver, no destructive addiction problems what-so-ever, invested heavily in the commodity sector (hedging against a currency that is being devalued every millisecond),

essential we are at peace with ourselves, this lifestyle worked for us so far....
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#32
RE: Greetings
(April 22, 2011 at 4:20 pm)ruhollah Wrote: I just gave you specific examples.... you want evidence, how about myself and millions of others..
I think Napoleon is more after reasons for believing that Allah exists, that the Qur'an is his revelation and that Muhammad is his prophet.
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#33
RE: Greetings
I see, there are many reasons why God exists. Later I can give some good examples based on the beauty of the universe and evolution of creatures to show why all the signs point to a one God.

Now Qur'an, along with Bible, Torah, ...etc. have more or less the same messages. They were all the same manuals sent to different cultures/nations in their respective languages.

Prophet Muhammad like many other prophets before him, came at a time when society around him/her was on the brink of destruction. As I mentioned earlier, in pre-Islamic Arabia, burying female babies was considered normal! Abusing and killing slaves was considered normal!

And like all the prophets before him, slowly he brought change to the community's mindset. People stop killing their female babies, freed their slaves, stop senseless killings....etc. He was called a kook at first, abused, pissed on, then banned from the town, then his family was abused, and slowly and slowly people began waking up and following his message. The people of pre-Islam Arabia were lost and his message help guide the people.

(April 22, 2011 at 4:26 pm)Eleazar Wrote:
(April 22, 2011 at 4:20 pm)ruhollah Wrote: I just gave you specific examples.... you want evidence, how about myself and millions of others..
I think Napoleon is more after reasons for believing that Allah exists, that the Qur'an is his revelation and that Muhammad is his prophet.


Now if you want a reason why God exists, I can provide a billion examples based on the beauty of nature....

but here is the most effective argument...

you are a descendant of your parents
your parents are a descendant of your grand-parents
your grand-parents are a descendant of their parents...
...

...
a certain species evolved from a certain species
those species evolved from bacteria
bacteria was derived from carbon and water
that carbon and water was derived from elements
these elements are derived from certain atoms/magnetic fields
those atoms were derived from certain quarks...
...big bang occurred to certain string vibrations
...

we keep going like this to infinity......

we believe that at infinity, you find the origin of everything that is created... and that origin is God
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#34
RE: Greetings
Quote:A year ago, an atheist I knew committed suicide

Do you suppose his reason might have better or worse than this guy's?


Quote:JAKARTA, Indonesia — A suicide bomber blew himself up during prayers in a mosque in a police station on Friday, wounding dozens and killing himself, antiterrorism officials said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/16/world/...nesia.html
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#35
RE: Greetings
(April 22, 2011 at 4:39 pm)ruhollah Wrote: but here is the most effective argument...
An argument typically involves two or more premises (statements like "sunsets are beautiful" or "human beings came about via an evolutionary process") and a conclusion. A sound argument is one where all the premises are true, and the conclusion logically follows from the premises (and so it must be true as well).

To give the classic example:
Premise 1: Socrates is a man.
Premise 2: Every man is mortal.
Conclusion: Therefore, Socrates is mortal.

Both the premises are true, and the conclusion logically follows from them - so it is a sound argument, and therefore the conclusion is true.

As you have stated them so far, your arguments for God's existence cannot be sound arguments - because they only really involve one premise.

For example, you argument from origins:

Premise 1: The evolutionary process can be traced back to "infinity".
Premise 2: ...
Conclusion: At "infinity", the origin of the evolutionary process is God.

Do you see how your conclusion, whether true or not, doesn't at all follow from Premise 1? You need to give another premise so that the conclusion does follow. (You also need to make clear what you mean by "infinity" as it's a notoriously slippery concept!)

I'm not saying that there's not an element of truth in your arguments, or that you couldn't make sound arguments out of them, only that you need to do quite a bit more work to make your arguments sound.
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#36
RE: Greetings
listen I don't want to get into technical grammatical issues

essentially I am saying

everything you see in nature was derived from something else,... if we keep moving back in time you will reach the origin of everything that is created and we believe this origin is God.

Here is a mathematical formula:

LIM (as x goes to - Infinity) Parent Entity(at time/space x) = GOD

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#37
RE: Greetings
(April 22, 2011 at 4:26 pm)Eleazar Wrote:
(April 22, 2011 at 4:20 pm)ruhollah Wrote: I just gave you specific examples.... you want evidence, how about myself and millions of others..
I think Napoleon is more after reasons for believing that Allah exists, that the Qur'an is his revelation and that Muhammad is his prophet.

I'd settle for some historical evidence that Mohammad ever existed and was not simply a made up character like Moses and Jesus.

Oddly, Joseph Smith was real....

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#38
RE: Greetings
(April 22, 2011 at 5:52 pm)Minimalist Wrote: I'd settle for some historical evidence that Mohammad ever existed and was not simply a made up character like Moses and Jesus.

Oddly, Joseph Smith was real....

Well there isn't really much controversy on the existence of prophet Mohammad like there is for Jesus, Moses and other prophets.

There are countless hadiths (essentially biographies of the prophet as he lived and traveled). The coffins of most of his family members are all over the middle east.

Now when it to comes to Jesus, I mentioned that it is usually the kings/queens/emperors that rewrite history. The message that Jesus delivered to their people was a threat to their monarchy and they did everything they could to erase traces of him in the pages of history. As a result, much of his messages was memorized and was sent to the next generation verbally. The original Bible was lost, so it is hard to get an authentic account of what really happened. People's mind also tend to get hazy as they age, so getting the exact message is difficult.

As far as this religion is concerned, Jesus was NOT KILLED on a cross, although it may of appeared it was him but it wasn't. It is believed he will return to society when its at the brink of destruction. When people are lost and don't know what is morally right and what is morally wrong.

Furthermore, it is believed that once justice is brought on the planet, he will get MARRIED....I.E. have a relationship with the opposite sex like a normal human should have. Being a celibate to get closer to God is not the way to go as far as this religion is concerned.
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#39
RE: Greetings
(April 22, 2011 at 5:52 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Oddly, Joseph Smith was real....

And a loony Tiger
Please give me a home where cloud buffalo roam
Where the dear and the strangers can play
Where sometimes is heard a discouraging word
But the skies are not stormy all day
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#40
RE: Greetings
(April 21, 2011 at 9:06 pm)ruhollah Wrote: For those of you who are struggling with addiction or relationship problems, this religion can help.

I can deal with such problems independently without outside interference. Don't need an imaginary friend to fix my problems. I can do it all on my own.
Quote:we keep going like this to infinity......
we believe that at infinity, you find the origin of everything that is created... and that origin is God
1. How do you know it goes on for infinity?
2. How do you know it was a god that kicked it all off?

Corrected version -
Quote:We believe that at infinity, you find the origin of everything that is created... and that origin is unknown.
Fixed!
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan

Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.

Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.

You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
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