Amoral Inaction

[tackattack]

[thesummerqueen]

Go ahead, be aggressive, just remember that I bite.

I do wonder the same thing - if there is a god, and it's deist sort, what's the point? I think of someone who builds a hugely complex model train set and then abandons it. Maybe that's still human bias coming through. [shrugs]

But I was once accused of so thoroughly not needing philosophy that it's rather moot. I just do what I do. Hence my Whitman quote.

Why is it so important to you that my God be involved in my life????

Too many times arguing with other theists - generalizations get made and deists get swept into the same dustpan?

Why does my God have to make sense to you?

I asked the question - as long as I'm still listening, the most polite thing you could do is find a common language to make me understand.

[tackattack]

That's why I think he's being asked to define their god, to assess a common language with which to call it just as irrational as the Christian one

[thesummerqueen]

No offense, Tack-love...maybe not QUITE as irrational as the Christian one...but that's only because being born as one of the "Chosen People" made me already think you Christians were a few screws short of a toolbox.



[hugs]

[DeistPaladin]

I do wonder the same thing - if there is a god, and it's deist sort, what's the point? I think of someone who builds a hugely complex model train set and then abandons it. Maybe that's still human bias coming through. [shrugs]

The word "abandons" is sometimes used in a biased definition of deism but not by deists themselves. I know of no deist philosopher that ever used the term or anything like it.

My bacteria cell in a petri dish analogy might be helpful for your understanding of the deist's position on the topic of God.

Put another way, I can tell you the joke about one bacteria cell in said petri dish approaching another and saying "let me tell you about my personal relationship with the great lab coat in the sky".

I see it as a matter of scale.

[tackattack]

@TSQ- no offense taken, lots of people have justified reason why people claiming to be Christians are crazy, there's a lot of fundamental nut jobs out there. I just hope you know they're not accept by mainstream Christianity either. As of now it appears I'm doing all the questioning for the atheistic community when I had no original intention of denouncing the deistic god, just wanted some cohesion of definition. I'll let the atheists around here do the rest. I have enough on my plate fending off bitter atheists and being a mod, I don't need bitter deists on there as well.

[thesummerqueen]

The word "abandons" is sometimes used in a biased definition of deism but not by deists themselves. I know of no deist philosopher that ever used the term or anything like it.

My bacteria cell in a petri dish analogy might be helpful for your understanding of the deist's position on the topic of God.

I did see it, dear, and it is interesting - again I have only the most superficial of understandings of a deist's position, though I've been meaning to stalk you a bit and learn more. Have a lot on my plate between work, school, and my oh-so-important morning glories.

I don't need bitter deists on there as well.

Perish the thought.

[Captain Scarlet]

I see the universe as a machine as opposed to something that we're lucky to have. I see the human mind and our capacity for building our civilization as an intention as opposed to a fortunate turn by natural selection.

This implies purpose, order, design, regulation, certainty, maintenance etc. Yet there is no evidence of purpose in the natural world, just chaos and probability. On a macro level it can give the appearance of design, but can you describe what would a disordered universe would look like? Something that would cause you to doubt the existence of an ordering, creative force when you look through the telescope or microscope?

Because, to quote Mr. Spock, I look at the universe and say "fascinating".

Wasn't Mr Spock an atheist?

[DeistPaladin]

On a macro level it can give the appearance of design

On the micro as well.

but can you describe what would a disordered universe would look like? Something that would cause you to doubt the existence of an ordering, creative force when you look through the telescope or microscope?

I probably wouldn't be around to see it, or if I was, unable to rationally evaluate it.

Wasn't Mr Spock an atheist?

Was his philosophy ever determined in any episode? I ask because I don't know. I'm not as much an expert on Star Trek as other nerds might be.

---

I did see it, dear, and it is interesting - again I have only the most superficial of understandings of a deist's position, though I've been meaning to stalk you a bit and learn more.

Any time dear, though I don't know I can offer much. Even my sense of wonder of the natural universe is something most atheists would share (notable examples, Sagan, Dawkins and even the curmudgeonly Hitchens). One atheist once asked me if I could offer any reasons why she should "convert". I answered that I won't tell her or anyone else that they should be a deist. How you make sense of life and the universe is up to you, whether you think it's absurd or a machine (wink to Rev J).

Believe it or not, a few years ago I actually wondered why I couldn't be a "normal atheist". This phase lasted about two weeks where I seriously wondered what was "wrong with me". The skeptical side (agnostic side) of my brain is well aware that I can't prove the existence of God to anyone else's satisfaction. I'm not even sure what might constitute solid evidence for the claim. And yet I can't honestly adopt the label "atheist" because I'm so instinctively convinced. Ever seen the end of the movie "Contact"?

I eventually came to a resolution that it simply is my nature. I can't seem to get God out of my mind but at least It doesn't seem to weigh me down much.

---

Afterthought for Scarlet:

One thing I do expect to see, if the deist model of the universe is correct, is abundant examples of life on other worlds. In fact, not just life but intelligent life and other civilizations.

Neither this nor the lack thereof will decisively prove it one way or the other, but if it is just us, it lends a lot more weight to the idea that we did hit the cosmic lottery.

[Cinjin]