This is unexpected.

[downbeatplumb]

]My toes aren't virgins.

hock:

[Zenith]

P.S.
Anton Lavey seems to have misunderstood both the Christian Bible and Christianity.

Realizing this, the Christian Church made fornication the “Original Sin.”

??

The "original sin" in christianity is the eating of the forbidden fruit. Hence "original" - from there sin originated, that now everyone "sins".
And this is not the only thing LaVey got wrong.

---

@everyone

a quote from the Satanist High Priest:

"I believe all religions are insane. When you admit to the presence of a god, you are abdicating reason."

And to answer this:
1. Do you realize that the "Church of Satan" is a religion? and a religion does not need to preach the existence of a god. And many people would regard religions as insane, no matter if they believe in a god or gods, or not. You may say that "it is not actually, in the true meaning a religion", but it is.
Just to add a note: the religions that do not claim the existence of a god, usually depict the 'god' as an energy, force, or symbol. They usually use mysticism and belief in supernatural - which is common in all religions - and claim to provide 'scientific' and 'practical' and 'correct' explanations to supernatural, like "energy" and stuff, and calling their religious system "not a religion, but a science of reality", when it is the same thing, and their beliefs is indeed a religion. And they use modern scientific theories to make everything appear as "the science domain", and a "modern philosophy", "which relies on science" and then fill it with 'scientific' mysticism (teach you how you can be a god, i.e. how to do that which we call supernatural things, and which they call "perfectly natural", usually by reaching a certain level of 'spirituality' and gaining experience in domain by staying there longer and learning more).
2. Do you realize that this is an atheist forum? That means that most people here are atheists.

Magic, for example, isn't magical

Now this is astonishing.

And, just curios: why didn't you simply embrace normal atheism? Why do you need a "religion" to tell you things, to participate in rituals and perhaps to listen to others how they teach you while you to accept them as your "superiors" and "wisest ones"? Why not simply be how you want to be (ignoring political/religious parties)? And... do you believe that Anton LaVey was some kind of god, i.e. to be right in absolutely everything, so that it is ok for you to blindly trust him and take his teachings as ultimate truth?

[R-e-n-n-a-t]

I don't accept anyone as wiser than myself, that's important to point out. And I openly admit to never having had the chance to read the Satanic Bible. Therefore, this generalization could easily be incorrect, but as described:

The definitions of magic, of demons, and of rituals, love spells, etc. Are deliberately inaccurate. I don't believe in magic, nor a higher power, but (Zenith) you're viewing 'magic' through the Christian lense, whether or not you call yourself an atheist. Hence the 'magic is not magical' phrase. The mentioning and explanation of these various things are for two reasons only:

One, to deliberately mock traditional definitions that are so deeply rooted in society that even atheists (yes, even you and I) and nihilists follow them, and...
Two, so that LaVey (while he lived) could adopt a guise similar to Manson (the musician), in fact, the two knew each other.

Finally, it's important, in fact, of paramount importance, to point out that I'm an atheist. You have to understand, if I ever learn that most Satanists actually believe in magical magic, I will no longer define myself as one. I of course do not consider LaVey to be any sort of god, but I have a lurking suspicion that orthodox LaVeyans are every bit as cracked as theists.

[Zenith]

The definitions of magic, of demons, and of rituals, love spells, etc. Are deliberately inaccurate. I don't believe in magic, nor a higher power, but (Zenith) you're viewing 'magic' through the Christian lense, whether or not you call yourself an atheist. Hence the 'magic is not magical' phrase.

Then please tell me your understanding of magic, clearly.
For instance,

The amount of energy needed to levitate a teacup (genuinely) would be of sufficient force to place an idea in a group of people’s heads half‐way across the earth, in turn, motivating them in accordance with your will.

IS MAGIC (I mean, with your mind or will or emotions or energy to make a cup leviate??).
Why? Well, magic is:

the art of producing a desired effect or result through the use of incantation or various other techniques that presumably assure human control of supernatural agencies or the forces of nature.

the word "magic" doesn't have anything to do with devils or demons. If a guy claims that he separated the waters of a sea in two, 'with his mind', he claims "magic". the same with levitating a cup or putting a thought in million of men through a ritual. And they are being called "supernatural", not "natural".

And the same with a man dying due to a curse:

Next, one of LaVey’s most devoted witches, Jayne Mansfield, died under a curse he had placed on the head of her suitor, lawyer Sam Brody, for a variety of reasons I have explained in The Devil’s Avenger; LaVey had persistently warned her away from Brody and felt depressed over her death.

It was a PHYSICAL death, not a symbolical death. So Satanism DOES claim magic. (well, at least I don't consider 'natural' to use a ritual for somebody to die, if it works - somehow i.e. someone does die, as they claim)

And the definition of magic given in the Satanic Bible is:

The change in situations or events in accordance with one's will, which would, using normally accepted methods, be unchangeable.

Which supports what I've written above and sounds very "magical" magic.

The definitions of magic, of demons, and of rituals, love spells, etc. Are deliberately inaccurate... The mentioning and explanation of these various things are for two reasons only:

I tell you, when a thing is written clearly in a way and people say that it must be taken metaphorically, when it sounds very literal, it gets sounds very suspicious to me.
Reasons:
- All religions have their forced re-interpretations to fit the modern age. And if I took them as they say, then the Qur'an, for instance, would indeed specify the Big-Bang, modern knowledge about atoms, and other modern scientific discoveries, that Muhammud could have not known back then (which would mean that "Islam is the true religion" - as they say). But because of the fact that those things are forcibly made metaphorical, I can't believe them. So why should I believe when the Church of Satan claims that "a" actually means "b" and that "kill" actually mean "annoy" or something?
- Think about this: if Anton LaVey meant things literally, how would he have written?
- Consider that, if Anton LaVey really meant them literally, his followers now would re-interpret things in many ways so that they would not be seen as obsolete and stupid, as times have changed, and the bullshit that worked then, doesn't work now.
- "One, to deliberately mock traditional definitions that are so deeply rooted in society " - You don't mock a traditional definition by using it yourself too. The only effect you can get is to be regarded similar to them. Also consider that when Anton LaVey came with his ideas, "religion" was pretty popular and accepted, which made his Satanic Bible and theories to appear shocking in the eyes of the people (why? because "religion" was fashion, not atheism). If Anton LaVey had been born today, perhaps the stupidest thing he could do was to call his theories a "religion" and to make it similar to christianity (have high priest, black mass, etc.)

Also read this:

Of course LaVey pointed out to anyone who would listen that the Devil to him and his
followers was not the stereotyped fellow cloaked in red garb, with horns, tail and pitchfork, but rather the dark forces in nature that human beings are just beginning to fathom. How did LaVey square that explanation with his own appearance at times in black cowl with horns? He replied: “People need ritual, with symbols such as those you find in baseball games or church services or wars, as vehicles for expending emotions they can’t release or even understand on their own.” Nevertheless, LaVey himself soon tired of the games.

So, in that time people needed "ritual" and "religions" because religion was popular. It was not as much "to mock religions" as to gain adepts by using same methods. So that reason fails.

Two, so that LaVey (while he lived) could adopt a guise similar to Manson (the musician), in fact, the two knew each other.

guise for what? sorry, I don't understand what exactly you mean. And I don't know many things about Marilyn Manson, sorry. I'm not a fan of his.

Finally, it's important, in fact, of paramount importance, to point out that I'm an atheist. You have to understand, if I ever learn that most Satanists actually believe in magical magic, I will no longer define myself as one. I of course do not consider LaVey to be any sort of god, but I have a lurking suspicion that orthodox LaVeyans are every bit as cracked as theists.

The fact is that most religions or religious groups (whether they call themselves religions or not) do show the "good things" (i.e. the bright part) to the newbies, while hiding the bad things, so that the newbie would be influenced to join the religion. And it is not an exception to show as the "good things" the things the newbie wants to hear, but miss in reality.

And know that when I said about LaVey to be a sort of god, I did not mean it literally (i.e. a supernatural person to whom one prays to). Many times I use the word "god" about people that are idolized, and regarded as of a superior nature or something - and in the introductions of the Satanic Bible, LaVey is in this way raised to a 'superior nature', as if he was a god or something. Similar to "the god of Metal" or "the gods of Metal" when referring to the 'fathers' of Metal (called by people that look at them as if they were of a superior nature, or something).

[R-e-n-n-a-t]

I see. I have examined LaVeyan ideas about spells more closely and decided that I shall now distance myself from those magcial nutjobs. I'd change my listed religion if I could do that at the moment.

[Zenith]

I see. I have examined LaVeyan ideas about spells more closely and decided that I shall now distance myself from those magcial nutjobs. I'd change my listed religion if I could do that at the moment.

If you don't know how to do it:
in the top-right part of the page, you will see "User CP". Click on that. Then, from the left, click "Edit Profile". Then, in the panel that appears, write whatever you like at the "Religious Views" field.

P.S. I'm glad if I helped .