trancendent dice

[fr0d0]

Jen is the theist.. or a person claiming knowledge of the existence of the dice. We deduce that she is lying because there is no proof of the dice, or that there is no way that we can know what she knows. This is a correct deduction given our knowledge. Our understanding must theoretically be able to be changed to Jen's, as she has no abilities greater than ours.

[Edward]

Nonono, the important part to remember is specifically that they are NOT real. the theists can SAY whatever the hell they want, they're lying.

The whole point is that I'm SAYING the dice are real but, I'm lying too because in order to say these dice are real I have to redefine what is real, I have to strip down the definition of what is real so that the word has lost it's entire purpose. Because now the word real is being used to describe things that are NOT real, and have no value. Which is exactly how I know the dice are NOT real, because to say they are real I can't use the word real.

Sorry, but at the beginning of the post, you said there were three jars and one of them had transcendent dice in it. Now, in order to support your point, you say that it's all a lie, that there aren't really any transcendent dice, but that we have been lied to about them. In that case we have three jars, one has dice, and the other two are empty.

I don't believe in God anymore than you do (I think), but if you are going to say that God does not exist, or that it is a deception to believe that God exists, then you have to prove your point every bit as much as the Christian does.

[Demonaura]

Did I fail to mention it was a model? Relax, I'm not saying it's a deception to say god exists, this model doesn't even say that god does not exist. In reality I'm lying that theres transcendant dice for the sake of the model.

The point of the model is that, in order to say those dice exist you need to destroy the meaning of the word exist, to the point where it encompasses things that by our current definition, definately do not exist.

So get over this concept of lies and deceptions your look right over the entire point to attack things not in the model.

[Edward]

I'm not looking over the point. The fact is, in the model, there either are such thing as transcendent dice or there are not. If there are, then they exist. If there are none, or if the very idea of transcendent dice is absurd then they do not exist.

I think the point you are trying to make is that if we accept the typical definition of God, we then change the rules of existence so that the word no longer has any meaning. But I think then that you are being to narrow in your definition of "existence."

If the transcendent dice are there, then "existence" encompasses the physically as well as the transcendental.

[Demonaura]

I am being narrow in my definition of existence if I use the word to describe things I know exist.... As opposed to things that are completely identical to absolutely nothing.

I give up.