Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: March 29, 2024, 9:06 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Global Warming - The New Socialism
#1
Global Warming - The New Socialism
Anyone been following the whole global warming movement? I suppose it's hard to miss with it being in every newspaper, everyday. Or did anyone hear about the 89 new snowfall records on just one day, that Antarctica's snowfall has doubled, or that world sea ice is at a 25 year high?

I doubt it.

The media hypes global warming to no end, but despite there being evidence to the contrary, they refuse to recognise it. The global warming movement has become a religion, with sceptics being silenced by global warming converts.

And a lot of people believe that when socialism fell, a lot of the main guys went into the green movement.

What do you think? Which do you stand on? Or still deciding? Or want more info?

Try these sites:
Ice Age Now - http://www.iceagenow.com
Icecap.us - http://icecap.us/
CO2 Does Not Cause Warming - http://www.co2science.org/
650 scientists agree Al Gore is a buffoon - http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2008/12...think.html
Is there global cooling? - http://isthereglobalcooling.com/


Also, youtube has some interesting videos. Try searching Bob Carter.
"I think that God in creating Man somewhat overestimated his ability." Oscar Wilde
My Blog | Why I Don't Believe in God
Reply
#2
RE: Global Warming - The New Socialism
First of all, I object to you painting scientists who are proponents of the climate change debate as zealots and making martyrs out of the skeptics. The fact is, science does not have any hidden agendas and given the importance of the subject it warrants money, time, and research gathering supporting evidence one way or the other.

[youtube]52KLGqDSAjo[/youtube]

[youtube]PoSVoxwYrKI[/youtube]
Best regards,
Leo van Miert
Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall --Torque is how far you take the wall with you
Pastafarian
Reply
#3
RE: Global Warming - The New Socialism
Not trying to be funny but, whilst there are those who are w**kers about it (adopting it almost like a religion), there is pretty much scientific consensus that global warming is occurring.

Kyu
Angry Atheism
Where those who are hacked off with the stupidity of irrational belief can vent their feelings!
Come over to the dark side, we have cookies!

Kyuuketsuki, AngryAtheism Owner & Administrator
Reply
#4
RE: Global Warming - The New Socialism
Our winters are shorter than when I was a kid, that's for sure. I'm very happy about this. The lack of decent snow doesn't make for happy kids is all. Summers in the UK are pathetic, we haven't even had a decent spring the past couple of years.

More of an issue concerning us all is the depletion of fossil fuel reserves.

The aims to cut down on waste and fuel usage seem very positive and I welcome them.
Reply
#5
RE: Global Warming - The New Socialism
That's fine. I'm not meaning to. I want to talk about climate change and figure out if it's actually happening or not - by examining the evidence, much like with religion. I believe global warming is bad science.

The debate about climate change never happened. Al Gore is constantly requested for debates about climate science, but he constantly refuses. He has made more than 100 million with his campaign, lives in a house that uses enough electricity to power numerous homes and has his limousine waiting outside conferences with the air conditioning on so it's cool when he gets in. His movie, An Inconvenient Truth was being shown in schools in England as a science film until someone took the issue to court at which the court declared it 'not scientific'.

Remember the Kyoto Agreement? How many scientists would it take to establish that a consensus on global warming does not exist? How's 32,000?
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs...niers.aspx

Many of the models scientists have been using to predict climate change are based on surface temperature figures. However, recent research reveals that surface temps misrepresent the actual temperature changes in the deep atmosphere. So what happens when we look at atmosphere temps? We find a declining temperature trend over the last decade with 2008 being colder than 2007.



Think about it. You believe in evolution right? The earth has existed for millions of years. Humans only arrived recently. However before us, the earth underwent numerous ice ages and various extinctions (the obvious example is the dinosaurs), so why would the earth suddenly be stressing about humans? The earth has already been cooling and warming in the last million years, and it'll keep doing it. It's a little vain to think us mere humans can change the earth's climate.

It's the sun. The earth's climate changes relative to activity to the sun. Makes sense doesn't it, seeing as it's the heater of our planet.

And even if we are heating up, what's the big worry? The earth was warmer a thousand years ago than it is now. We survived then, we'll survive now.

Or think about greenhouses. I always wondered what they were for. Turns out, people use a greenhouse to triple the amount of CO2 the plants are exposed to. So if there is actually more CO2 around today, and more on it's way, expect more food, expect it to be cheaper, expect forest to look greener,... wait, just expect everything to grow a whole lot better.

But if we're getting cold? It's a little more dire.

What are your thoughts?
(March 15, 2009 at 7:17 am)Kyuuketsuki Wrote: Not trying to be funny but, whilst there are those who are w**kers about it (adopting it almost like a religion), there is pretty much scientific consensus that global warming is occurring.

Kyu



A scientific consensus? Says who? The media says it and the governments say it. So I guess its understandable why most people believe in it. But what do the scientists say? Like I said above, 32000 scientists signed a petition urging the United States government that 'there is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gases is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the earth's atmosphere and disruption of the earth's climate".

PS. I hope I don't sound like a w**ker. This is me learning how to defend what I believe in whilst trying to stimulate some healthy discussion Big Grin I don't mean to piss anyone off.
(March 15, 2009 at 7:21 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Our winters are shorter than when I was a kid, that's for sure. I'm very happy about this. The lack of decent snow doesn't make for happy kids is all. Summers in the UK are pathetic, we haven't even had a decent spring the past couple of years.

More of an issue concerning us all is the depletion of fossil fuel reserves.

The aims to cut down on waste and fuel usage seem very positive and I welcome them.

Absolutely! I'm all for cutting down on waste and fuel usage, it's a very smart thing to do. And we need to adapt, and learn to achieve more while using less. We need to protect our environment as much as can; there ain't many more planets like ours Wink

I'm just against the idea the humans can cause global warming, and even that the earth is warming.
"I think that God in creating Man somewhat overestimated his ability." Oscar Wilde
My Blog | Why I Don't Believe in God
Reply
#6
RE: Global Warming - The New Socialism
I didn't say you sounded like a w**ker, I said people adopted it like w**kers (and I was actually referring to the pro-GW camp).

It struck me that 32,000 scientists denying global warming would be news! Big news! HUGE NEWS!!! So I did a brief search expecting to find articles from every major UK media outlet yet I found very little ... sure there are lots of references to it but not a single reputable media outlet seemed to report on it directly.

So I am a little confused ... is it true or isn't it? Perhaps you can provide a direct link?

Kyu
Angry Atheism
Where those who are hacked off with the stupidity of irrational belief can vent their feelings!
Come over to the dark side, we have cookies!

Kyuuketsuki, AngryAtheism Owner & Administrator
Reply
#7
RE: Global Warming - The New Socialism
(March 15, 2009 at 8:54 am)Kyuuketsuki Wrote: I didn't say you sounded like a w**ker, I said people adopted it like w**kers (and I was actually referring to the pro-GW camp).

I know what you said Big Grin Just wanted to make it clear that I wasn't just trying to start a fight.

That's the thing, it should have been big news, but we don't hear about it. As far as I know it's true, if you follow this link, there'll be an article and an image of the petition they signed. Here is the link - http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs...niers.aspx

Just for the record, I used to believe it all too. I thought it was undeniable. Then I started finding not just one site or book, but many refuting global warming. And instead of trying to avoid going into the science, they went straight to the science to make their point. However, I'm happy to be wrong.
"I think that God in creating Man somewhat overestimated his ability." Oscar Wilde
My Blog | Why I Don't Believe in God
Reply
#8
RE: Global Warming - The New Socialism
I'm currently uncertain about climate change. I used to be all for the whole "global warming" movement but I'm not so sure now. I think that there are dishonest scientists who will simply exaggerate claims to get funding. I'm no climatologist so I'm not going to spread my views around, but I haven't seen any conclusive evidence that humans are to blame.
Reply
#9
RE: Global Warming - The New Socialism
(March 15, 2009 at 6:37 am)athoughtfulman Wrote: Anyone been following the whole global warming movement? I suppose it's hard to miss with it being in every newspaper, everyday. Or did anyone hear about the 89 new snowfall records on just one day, that Antarctica's snowfall has doubled, or that world sea ice is at a 25 year high?

I doubt it.

The media hypes global warming to no end, but despite there being evidence to the contrary, they refuse to recognise it. The global warming movement has become a religion, with sceptics being silenced by global warming converts.

And a lot of people believe that when socialism fell, a lot of the main guys went into the green movement.

What do you think? Which do you stand on? Or still deciding? Or want more info?

Try these sites:
Ice Age Now - http://www.iceagenow.com
Icecap.us - http://icecap.us/
CO2 Does Not Cause Warming - http://www.co2science.org/
650 scientists agree Al Gore is a buffoon - http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2008/12...think.html
Is there global cooling? - http://isthereglobalcooling.com/


Also, youtube has some interesting videos. Try searching Bob Carter.

Socialism hasn't " fell "...it is still being built by socialists wherever they are. I am one!
HuhA man is born to a virgin mother, lives, dies, comes alive again and then disappears into the clouds to become his Dad. How likely is that?
Reply
#10
RE: Global Warming - The New Socialism
Quote:Doran and Kendall Zimmerman, 2009

A poll performed by Peter Doran and Maggie Kendall Zimmerman at Earth and Environmental Sciences, University of Illinois at Chicago received replies from 3,146 of the 10,257 polled Earth scientists. Results were analyzed globally and by specialization. 96.2% of climatologists who are active in climate research believe that mean global temperatures have risen compared to pre-1800s levels, and 97.4% believe that human activity is a significant factor in changing mean global temperatures. Among all respondents, 90% agreed that temperatures have risen compared to pre-1800 levels, and 80% agreed that humans significantly influence the global temperature. Petroleum geologists and meteorologists were among the biggest doubters, with only 47 percent and 64 percent, respectively, believing in human involvement. A summary from the survey states that:

"It seems that the debate on the authenticity of global warming and the role played by human activity is largely nonexistent among those who understand the nuances and scientific basis of long-term climate processes."

http://tigger.uic.edu/~pdoran/012009_Doran_final.pdf


http://www.royalsociety.org.nz/Site/news...m0708.aspx
From the Royal Society of New Zealand

Thursday 10 July 2008

Climate change statement from the Royal Society of New Zealand

If you have any enquiries about this statement, please call Chair of the Climate Committee, Dr David Wratt, [email protected], 04 386 0588 or 021 34 9742, or Committee member Dr James Renwick, [email protected], 04 386 0343 or 021 178 5550. The full list of committee members is at http://www.rsnz.org/advisory/nz_climate/
Introduction

The Royal Society of New Zealand convenes an expert committee on climate. The controversy over climate change and its causes, and possible confusion among the public, have prompted the committee to produce a statement to make absolutely clear what the evidence is for climate change and anthropogenic (human-induced) causes.

In summary, the statement says:

The globe is warming because of increasing greenhouse gas emissions. Measurements show that greenhouse gas concentrations in the atmosphere are well above levels seen for many thousands of years. Further global climate changes are predicted, with impacts expected to become more costly as time progresses. Reducing future impacts of climate change will require substantial reductions of greenhouse gas emissions.

The Royal Society is charged by its Act with informing the public about science, and fostering evidence-based scientific debate. We hope this statement makes a useful contribution to public understanding of climate change.

The Statement

The globe is warming, because of increasing greenhouse gas emissions.
There has been an overall upward trend in global surface temperature since the beginning of the 20th Century. Most of the observed global warming over the past 50 years is very likely to be due to increases in greenhouse gas concentrations in the atmosphere. Greenhouse gases warm the lower atmosphere by allowing sunlight to reach the Earth’s surface but trapping some of the infrared radiation emitted by the Earth. Human activities have increased the concentrations of carbon dioxide, methane and nitrous oxide since the mid-1700s. More than half of the carbon dioxide concentration increase has occurred since 1970.

Human activities have also increased concentrations of aerosols (small “air pollution” particles) in the atmosphere. These may have partially offset the heating effect of the greenhouse gases by scattering some sunlight back to space.

Natural factors also cause climate variations.
Climate has always varied, over timescales of decades, centuries and millennia. Until recently these variations have had only natural causes – including changes in the tilt of the Earth’s axis, the shape of the Earth’s orbit, the energy output from the sun, dust from volcanic emissions, and heat exchanges between the atmosphere and the ocean (such as El Niño). This natural variability still occurs in addition to the human influences. Thus while the overall decade-to-century temperature trend is upwards, individual years can still be warmer or cooler than previous years.

Further global changes are predicted. Many impacts are expected to be more costly as time progresses.
Even if the concentrations of all greenhouse gases and aerosols were held constant at year 2000 levels, a further warming trend would be expected for at least several decades, due mainly to the slow response of the oceans. Additional increases in greenhouse gas concentrations, and resulting changes in climate, will occur over coming decades unless concerted international action is taken to substantially reduce emissions. Impacts will vary regionally but, aggregated and discounted to the present, they are very likely to impose net annual economic costs which will increase over time as global temperatures increase.

Measurements show that:

* Atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide, methane and nitrous oxide have increased by 35%, 150% and 18% respectively since around 17501 .
* Air temperature (averaged over the globe’s surface) has risen through the past 100 years. The linear warming trend from 1906 to 20052 was 0.74°C [0.56 to 0.92°C]3.
* Globally-averaged sea level rose by 17 cm [12 to 22 cm] during the 20th century.
* Average northern hemisphere temperatures during the second half of the 20th century were very likely warmer than during any other 50-year period in the last 500 years and likely the warmest in the past 1300 years.
* For the globally-averaged surface air temperature, 2005 and 1998 were the two warmest years in the instrumental temperature record (i.e. since 1850. Twelve of the thirteen years during the period 1995-2007 are the warmest since 1850).
* Mountain glaciers and snow cover have declined on average in both hemispheres.
* Spring peak river flows have been occurring 1 to 2 weeks earlier in basins with important seasonal snow cover in North America and northern Eurasia (based on observations over the period 1936 – 2000), due to earlier warming-driven snow melt.
* Arctic sea-ice summer extent has decreased at an average rate of 7.4% [5.0% to 9.8%] per decade since 1978.
* Observations since 1961 show the average temperature of the global ocean has increased to depths of at least 3000m, with decadal fluctuations superimposed on this long-term trend.
* The ocean has become more acidic because of uptake of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere.
* For New Zealand the air temperature shows substantial year to year fluctuations, but shows a clear increase over time, with a linear trend in the country-wide average of 0.9°C between 1908 and 2006. The average sea level rise over the twentieth century was 16±2 cm. The number of frost days has decreased since the 1950s at many New Zealand sites.

Measurements and analyses show that:

* Present global atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide far exceed pre-industrial values dating back at least 650,000 years.
* The global increases in carbon dioxide concentration since pre-industrial times are due primarily to fossil fuel use and land use change.
* About 2/3rds of these anthropogenic carbon dioxide emissions since 1750 are estimated to have come from fossil fuel burning and about 1/3 from land use change. About 45% of this carbon dioxide has remained in the atmosphere.
* The combined influence on the energy balance of the Earth-atmosphere system of all anthropogenic emissions between 1750 and 2006 is likely to be at least 5 times larger than the influence of changes in solar output over the same period.
* Very energetic volcanic eruptions (such as that of Mt Pinatubo in 1991) can place small particles high in the atmosphere, blocking sunlight and leading to cooling for a few years.
* Increasing atmospheric temperatures lead to an overall increase of water vapour in the atmosphere. Water vapour is itself a strong greenhouse gas, so this amplifies the warming effect of the increase in anthropogenic greenhouse gases.
* The frequency of heavy precipitation events has increased over most land areas, consistent with warming and observed increases of atmospheric water vapour.


Projections for the 21st Century from the IPCC’s4 2007 assessment (assuming no substantial efforts to reduce greenhouse gas emissions) include:

* An increase in globally-averaged surface temperature of 1.1 to 6.4°C by 21005.
* A globally-averaged sea level increase of 18 to 59 cm by 2100. However these projections do not include uncertainties in climate-carbon cycle feedbacks nor the full effects of dynamic changes in ice-sheet flow, so do not provide an upper bound for possible sea level rise.
* More heat waves, fewer frosts, and more heavy rain events are very likely.
* The area affected by droughts is likely to increase through the 21st Century.
* Increases are likely in the peak wind and rain intensity in tropical cyclones


Projections for New Zealand based on these global projections suggest:

* A New Zealand-average warming7 of 0.2 to 2.0°C by 2040 and 0.7 to 5.1°C by 2090. Fewer cold temperatures and frosts, and more high temperature episodes.
* A stronger west-east rainfall gradient (wetter in the west and drier in the east) in winter and spring, and an increasing risk of extreme rainfall as the century progresses.
* Increasing drought risk during this century in areas which are currently drought-prone.
* An increase in New Zealand-averaged sea level of the same order as the IPCC global projections.
* Natural year to year variations in New Zealand’s climate will be superimposed on top of these projected anthropogenic changes.


Some potential further risks are being quantified by ongoing research:

* Some studies suggest substantial parts of the Greenland ice cap, and perhaps of the West Antarctic ice sheet could melt over the coming 1000 years. Global average sea level at the height of the last interglacial about 125,000 years ago (when average polar temperatures were around 3°C to 5°C warmer than now) was likely 4-6 m higher than at present.
* Models indicate some slowing of the oceanic meridional overturning circulation (MOC) is very likely during the 21st Century. The MOC carries warm water into the North Atlantic where it cools, sinks and then spreads through the other ocean basins at depth
* As the globe warms, the oceans and biosphere may become less efficient at absorbing carbon dioxide, leading to a larger fraction of the anthropogenic emissions remaining in the atmosphere.


Reducing the future impact of climate change will require substantial reductions of net emissions of greenhouse gases. Major international policy changes would be required to deliver these reductions but various technologies exist to provide them:

* More efficient use of energy, e.g. better designed and insulated houses, more efficient appliances and industrial processes
* Renewable energy sources, e.g. hydropower, geothermal, wind, marine, and solar
* Lower-carbon fossil fuels such as natural gas and the capture and storage of emissions from power plants
* More efficient transport and urban systems and the use of appropriate biofuels and other renewable energy sources to power transport
* Reforestation, reduced deforestation, and lower emission forms of agriculture

If you have any enquiries about this statement, please call Chair of the Climate Committee, Dr David Wratt, [email protected], 04 386 0588 or 021 34 9742, or Committee member Dr James Renwick, [email protected], 04 386 0343 or 021 178 5550. The full list of committee members is at http://www.rsnz.org/advisory/nz_climate/

1. These percentage increases are based on greenhouse gas concentrations in 2005 documented in the IPCC’s Fourth Assessment Report.

2. This is the best straight-line fit to the time series of annual global temperatures over this time interval.

3. Values provided in square brackets are estimated 90% uncertainty intervals, ie there is an estimated 5% likelihood that the value could be below the lowest number provided, and 5% likelihood it could be above the highest value.

4. IPCC = Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.

5. Part of the range for these temperature projections reflects the range of plausible greenhouse gas emission trajectories for the coming century, depending on economic, social and policy developments. Part of the range is from uncertainties in global climate models. The changes quoted here are relative to the period 1980-99.

6. Note that projections of regional changes in climate are subject to more uncertainty than projections of global changes.

7. These projected changes are relative to the period 1980 – 1999
Best regards,
Leo van Miert
Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall --Torque is how far you take the wall with you
Pastafarian
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Socialism, The "Forced Happy" Religion Ahriman 39 2321 November 8, 2022 at 6:26 pm
Last Post: Ahriman
  New Symbol for Global Warming chimp3 2 589 June 2, 2017 at 6:47 am
Last Post: chimp3
  The most heart warming advertisement ever ErGingerbreadMandude 17 2613 February 13, 2017 at 10:39 pm
Last Post: ErGingerbreadMandude
  Fun little demo of what is causing the warming Aoi Magi 2 985 July 15, 2015 at 8:59 am
Last Post: dyresand
  Global Warming northumbrian66 30 10176 November 3, 2009 at 9:27 am
Last Post: Dotard



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)