Alpha Course

[The Grand Nudger]

[fr0d0]

[pgrimes15]

Thanks for the replies people. I should have included an explanation of what the Alpha Course is. It is an evangelising tool under the guise of an honest exploration of the meaning of life (at least that is my interpretation of it). It lasts 10 weeks, one evening per week, including an away day where speaking in tongues is featured, although the vicar at my course said he was not particularly keen on pursuing that (a little bit un-English )- the anglican church in UK is probably less "heavy" about that kind of thing than would be the case in US.

If there is an interest I will post a similar account on subsequent weeks.

Regards

pgrimes15

[fr0d0]

"un english" haha

Please do come back. I find it hillarious

[pgrimes15]

Alpha Course Week 2 17th October

First of all the meal was very good. Spaghetti bolognese with garlic bread - my second favourite – best being chicken vindaloo. People were very friendly, coming up to me, chatting – perhaps the grapevine had communicated that I didn't feel particularly welcomed last week. Anyway brilliant food and I got seconds – good chat with the people on each side of me about children, jobs etc. they are nice people.

The talk.

Same as last week no video of Nicky Gumbel , think that's how the rest of the course will be. Talk from the vicar was about “Why did Jesus die”. It was difficult to see how this was any different from the regular Sunday sermon at this church apart from the fact that it followed the topic prescribed in the alpha course schedule. Jesus took on our sins and the crucifixion took those away allowing you to enter God's grace (i.e. heaven) provided you believe in him. Bit of description about how awful death by this method was – although the vicar got a couple of things wrong – saying that the nails went through the hands (should be the wrists) and a sword pierced His side (isn't it a spear ?) .

The group session.

There were more people this week, I counted 25 in total – about 11 in my group . The group I was in had a few newcomers. As last week I resolved not to say anything – at least to start with as I didn't want to dominate things and I am not a naturally gregarious person. The vicar started with the question of the crucifixion and did anyone have any comments or difficulties with it. Embarrassed silence – everyone looking around – some looking at me but I kept my peace - eventually someone commented that they were worried God would not keep on forgiving them even though they continued to sin – they were reassured by the vicar that forgiveness would keep coming. Another person commented that it was nice that someone had given that sacrifice for them – I thought this was standard stuff for a regular church bible study meeting. Bit more pregnant pauses. Eventually after about 15 mins I asked about sin and what everybody thought it meant – was a sin the same as a crime or a wrong (like being unkind to someone). Pointed out that some things that might be regarded as sin - like slavery – were not regarded as sin in the old testament, whilst other things like eating pork were once a sin but no longer considered as such. This started a discussion where some people said it was your actions that were sinful but others that thinking of things like adultery were sinful. Did not reach any definite conclusion but had a reasonable discussion where people were joining in and talking about stuff. Then went to the topic of the week “Why did Jesus die?”. I asked “What was the actual sacrifice that God made?. I said “ If Jesus is the Son part of the holy trinity then he is co-eternal in Christian doctrine (I've done my homework) so he has existed for all eternity. Therefore he has always known that he will come to earth and occupy a human body for 30 years and then be crucified, go to hell for 3 days (a place which he himself had made) re-animate his dead crucified body and ascend to heaven to be Lord of the universe for eternity again – where's the sacrifice?” Apart from the undeniable agony of a crucifixion death doesn't seem much else. Some one mentioned the torture of living a human life without his using god-like powers, but I countered that he performed miracles.
I asked why there had to be a crucifixion. Couldn't Jesus have come to earth, done the miracles, sermon on the mount, last supper etc. then said “The Romans are coming to arrest me but they will not find me – I am going to my father - be nice to each other and I will return one day (as he ascended into Heaven).” that way you could still have the condition that you have to believe in Jesus but cut out the nasty crucifixion bit. The answer from the vicar was that the crucifixion was the heart of being a Christian. That seemed like circular logic to me – we are Christians because of the crucifixion and the crucifixion made us Christians. I was unable to say this because the vicar was in full flow and would not allow me to interrupt him – there was a bit of a stand-off before I backed down and he continued.

Subsequently the father from the last session spoke and accused me of only wanting to “dis-prove” things and being “hard-hearted with respect to God” - I took that to mean being hard hearted – thanks a lot. I was also accused of having a closed mind and not being “open” to God. As always – it is the non-believers fault that they are not willing to receive God who is “desperate” for us to believe in him. Apparently – as I pointed out – the omnipotent being cannot get past someones unwillingness to buy it. Another thing that kept coming up was that I had “chosen” not to believe – although I had pointed out several times that belief is not a matter of choice ( I used the example of the moon made of cheese - you cannot force yourself to believe it even if you wanted to) but the matter kept coming up as if I had not spoken. I have “chosen” not to believe and God cannot get through to me because I have closed my mind – so it's all my fault.

We were getting to the end of the session and the vicar – I think as a sort of closing statement – started on a story from his past. It very quickly became apparent that his story was a version of Pascals' wager – if you believe in God but are wrong you have lost little – if you believe and are right you have won everything. I interrupted and said this is so flawed I could talk for an hour pointing out the flaws in the argument (I will not go into them now) . Before I was able to go further he warned me to let him finish, I started to speak and there was an awkward moment when he got quite heated and almost demanded to continue without interruption “No! I will continue!” so I backed down again.

That was the end of the session. I loitered around for a little while hoping that maybe there would be some after time chatting but everyone had gone into their groups talking and no one approached me so I just left without saying goodbye to anyone. I felt that I really am the enemy now. What I really remember from this meeting was the numerous times that I had 9 or 10 pairs of eyes on me with all their heads nodding in agreement whilst someone was speaking about some aspect of their belief directly to me. Talk about them and us ! Every other member of this discussion group seemed to be a fully paid up card carrying member of this church or another church. Almost expecting to be asked not to come again but until that happens I will continue to turn up.

Just like last week I am a bit disheartened – especially after the good food and nice chats with some nice people.

That's all. If there is interest I will do the same again next week.

Regards

pgrimes15

[downbeatplumb]

Ive seen the alpha course advertised near me. Have always wondered what it is, now I know, and it still smells fishy.

Thats just the pie................. ba dum tsshhh

[fr0d0]

The church is going up in my estimation somehow lol. Good tale thank you. I'd like to see you engage more on their level... see if you can't tease out some personal opinion.

[pgrimes15]

Thanks for the comment frOdO. I was thinking of perhaps taking more of a back seat next week - it all got a bit personal and acrimonious this time round ( not personal on my part - I am always careful to make my comments general ). I will see what happens if I just sit and listen - next weeks topic is "How can we have faith?". It may be difficult to bite my tongue but I will try. Also I will try and talk to people one-to-one instead of the adversarial situation of the discussion groups. This is assuming that I have not been asked to stop coming - but without me it will surely be just a bible study meeting.

Regards

pgrimes15

---

Incidently I should mention that my cousin - who originally suggested that I go on the course - is absolutely furious with her fellow church members - she is becoming quite protective of me. She thought that there would be other agnostics or atheists there and is dismayed that most of the people attending the course are committed church members of many years standing - she informed me that the "father" that I mentioned in my reports has just been made a church elder. Her understanding was that if church members attend they bring a friend from outside the church group and her constant refrain is "What are they doing there?". On the other hand they do make up the numbers !!

Regards

pgrimes15

[fr0d0]

Hey pg

Theoretically you are the reason for their existence; if a church exists for its non members, as I thought was the case. So I would be very surprised if they stopped you going, allthough there's always the chance that they will regard you as too much of a problem for them to deal with. The sick person that I am would greatly enjoy treading that boundary line to maximum effect.

I think the plan is that church members do the ground work to get bums on seats, and then there's a ratio of 2 or 3 people per non member at the events. Remember this can be like a refresher course for some Christians, a means of progression for adherents (church members but not believers), Gods work for mature Christians and the minister, as well as an evangelical outreach for new people.

I think it's great that you're challenging them with what to some is the age old rhetoric. They should be confronting that stuff. Good luck with next week, hope the strategy pays off

[pgrimes15]

Alpha Course Week 3 24th October

Some developments this week, feel that I have been sussed out. As soon as I arrived I was called over for a chat by the vicar. Standing a slight distance away but clearly an observer was the “father” I mentioned in previous posts who I had discovered was now a church “elder”. He asked me how I thought it was going and I said that it had got a bit hostile and personal last time (not on my part see my previous posts). I was offered a choice of going into a smaller discussion group with just me, the vicar, his wife and the “father” (sorry to use these pseudonyms but I am trying not to reveal any names) where they could “answer my questions” - of course conveniently separated from the rest of the group who might be persuaded by my arguments (that's my interpretation). The other option was to allow others to speak more in the existing group – others who might have burning issues but were inhibited from speaking out because of me. Of course it was all done in a polite and civilised way with friendliness and smiles but the message was clear – be separated from the other members of the Alpha course during the group discussions or pipe down in the current groups. Since I had already decided to say little or nothing this week round I said that I wanted to remain with the current group and that I would say less and listen more. I did point out that in both the previous weeks I had kept quiet for a good 10 – 15 mins and only spoke up when there did not seem to be any discussion worthy of the name.

Next the meal. It was chicken curry and rice with some naan bread. Very nice although I prefer a bit more spice in my curry but understand that if you are catering for large number it is going to be mild. During the meal, one of the ladies preparing it who is a good friend of my cousin came over and gave me a big ostentatious kiss on the cheek, I get the feeling that there are some in the church who are not happy with how I have been treated and this was her way of saying f**k you to the others but it was very welcome nonetheless. This week I deliberately sat at the end of the table so I could talk to more people and had a reasonable chat with the four ladies on my left and right. I asked them how they felt it was going and what they were getting out of it and received the same response that I'd received before – it was a chance to ask questions. As before I found this entirely unconvincing – surely they have their bible groups where they can do this – and besides, in the group discussion when I kept quiet there seemed absolutely no desire to do this.

There were 22 people on the course this week. One thing that struck me that I hadn't noticed before was the imbalance between men and women. There were only 7 men including myself the vicar, senior lay-person, and “father”.

The talk.

The topic this week was “How can we have faith”. The talk was not given by the vicar but by a senior member of the church, a man who is employed by the church but is not himself a clergyman. A sort of lay second in command to the vicar I suppose. He started with his personal testimony, - I'm getting too hear a lot of these - then spoke about knowing he was married because he has a certificate and pictures, and knowing that he has a relation ship with Jesus because there is a “certificate” (the bible), thus equating his certain knowledge that he is married with his certain knowledge of his relationship with Jesus. Tempting to point out that his wife is visible and you can see and touch her (in fact she was there). As in previous weeks the structure of the course was followed up to a point, but then it became just another preach about Jesus and the gift of eternal life, God giving his son to die for us etc.

The Group Discussion

Noticed this week that there were even more people in my group – 15 whilst the other group had only 6.
Not much to report this week I'm afraid. When the “discussion” started the vicar announced that he was going to conduct it by having a book that you had to hold if you wanted to speak ( a sort of talking stick). He started by passing the book to his right and inviting anyone to pass comment on the talk. The book very quickly passed from hand to hand (including mine – remember I had decided not to say much to start with) and ended back with him. So the vicar then posed a question “Do you feel more love of God than fear of God?”. The book still passed round pretty quickly with a few people briefly saying they felt more love (surprise surprise) until it arrived with “father” whereupon he launched into a 6 minute monologue (yes I timed him!), starting with his testimony (again!– even I'm getting tired of it – there surely cannot be a single member of this church who could not repeat it by heart) followed up by a bit of preaching. This seemed to be the signal for each successive person to give their personal testimony and it got quite monotonous – remember you cannot talk if you haven't got the book. The book went round a couple more times in similar fashion with the questions to be answered “How has Jesus changed you?” and “What does your relationship with God mean to you?” Rather than say “He hasn't” and “Nothing” I simply passed the book on. In fact I said nothing at all this week. I should mention the young chap who I thought may be non-christian from the first week. He was there with his wife who is a church member and his thinking seemed to be a sort of new age lets all get along together view. It was nice to have someone who was not just following the crowd but I don't think he is going to be an ally for me. I suspect that he is considered a much more promising prospect for conversion than I am and I wouldn't be surprised to arrive one week to see some “good news”. That's more or less it. It did not seem any different to a bible study class with me as an interloper. I felt quite angry and that the “talking book” format was designed in part to marginalize me and expressed my annoyance to the vicar who of course denied it – the smiles and friendliness are getting a bit more forced where he is concerned.

Next week vicar is on holiday and the discussion is being led by the “father”. He spoke at length on 2 further occasions giving him an aggregate talk-time of 14 mins. Yes ! 14 minutes of uninterrupted preaching when the time allotted to the whole period is 45 mins. That little nugget of information may crop up next week when I intended to fully participate. I have learned that the vicar is on holiday next week and the group will be led by the “father” - he had better be prepared for some searching questions – I'm going to spend the week boning up (that's cramming if you're American) .

That's all for this week - thanks for you comments.

Regards

pgrimes15