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RE: Charged with Dei-cide.
October 19, 2011 at 1:25 pm
Hey there Lehrling, and welcome to AF!
You definitely found the right place to kick back and relax. And hope you don't mind me saying so, but you seem to be having just the right, twisted sense of humor to fit in! 
When I was young, there was a god with infinite power protecting me. Is there anyone else who felt that way? And was sure about it? but the first time I fell in love, I was thrown down - or maybe I broke free - and I bade farewell to God and became human. Now I don't have God's protection, and I walk on the ground without wings, but I don't regret this hardship. I want to live as a person. -Arina Tanemura
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RE: Charged with Dei-cide.
October 19, 2011 at 1:45 pm
Thanks you everyone for the kind words; but let's not get too argumentative here. 
(October 19, 2011 at 7:54 am)ElDinero Wrote: (October 19, 2011 at 6:02 am)CoxRox Wrote: You and your dad will be in my thoughts (and prayers of course).
On the off chance that Cox talking to her pillow doesn't help, here's some advice that might actually be useful.
If you're feeling alone at any point, or if things do take a turn for the worse and you are forced to leave home, be sure to look up secular and atheist societies near to you. They may be able to help you in ways you never even thought of. At the very least you're likely to find other people who have been through similar things to you.
Either way, welcome to the forums. We don't put up with that sort of shit. Where are you from anyway?
I am south of Dallas, Texas.
I certainly hope to join some supportive groups like the ones you mention once I am kicked out at 18.
Thanks for the welcome. 
(October 19, 2011 at 8:00 am)Heather Wrote: Welcome to the forums, Lehrling!
I am so sorry your dad has decided that you becoming an Atheist is a reason he should disown you or try to kick you out. That is just terrible. I can't imagine.  I hope he wakes up and realizes how much of a jerk he is being. How does your mom feel on the subject?
And for now, at least you have us! We won't kick you out!!!
My mom is pretty much the only thing stopping my dad from kicking me out. That and the law. :/
And thanks!
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RE: Charged with Dei-cide.
October 19, 2011 at 2:04 pm
(October 19, 2011 at 1:45 pm)Lehrling Wrote: I am south of Dallas, Texas.
I certainly hope to join some supportive groups like the ones you mention once I am kicked out at 18.
Thanks for the welcome.
Get yourself down the road to Austin, mate. A lot of good humanists and atheists down there, I met a whole bunch of them last year. Very secular city, which is funny considering it's the capital of Texas.
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RE: Charged with Dei-cide.
October 20, 2011 at 4:29 am
(October 19, 2011 at 1:19 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Um, Luke 14
Quote:25 Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: 26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. 27 And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.
I'm sure you believe this horseshit happened, Cox. You may have to get with your boy's program.
Lehrling's dad seems like a fine, jesus-approved, xtian asshole to me!
Jesus was not saying we should literally 'hate' our parents etc. He is saying we should put Him FIRST before our parents etc. So if my parent or a family member asked me to do something that was contrary to God's will, then I would put God first. If you read the rest of Jesus' teachings, you'll see that His main teaching was to love God and love others as we love ourselves. Sorry Lehrling, to be talking 'theology', but I couldn't let Jesus be misrepresented in that way. Even a cursory study will show that Jesus does not teach hatred for parents.
"The eternal mystery of the world is its comprehensibility"
Albert Einstein
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RE: Charged with Dei-cide.
October 20, 2011 at 5:02 am
(This post was last modified: October 20, 2011 at 5:08 am by ElDinero.)
That's funny, a cursory study of that verse seems to imply it. Why did he use the word 'hate' then?
It's weird that you'd find some passages that make him appear to say one thing, and other passages that make him appear to say the opposite. Which one is a reliable quote? Hmmm....could it be....none of them?
'Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him' - 1 John 3:15
So what does he mean in this passage here, Cox? Does he mean 'whoever does not put his brother first is a murderer'? Either way, he's used the same word here. So if you don't hate your brother, you can't be a disciple. But if you do, you can't have eternal life and you're a murderer? Do I have that right? Seems like a no win to me, plus it seems to imply that the disciples all went to hell. Hmmm...
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RE: Charged with Dei-cide.
October 20, 2011 at 5:17 am
(This post was last modified: October 20, 2011 at 5:18 am by frankiej.)
(October 20, 2011 at 4:29 am)CoxRox Wrote: He is saying we should put Him FIRST before our parents etc. So if my parent or a family member asked me to do something that was contrary to God's will, then I would put God first.
Bit selfish, no?
You would go with your imaginary friend rather than family?
That makes me rather sad
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RE: Charged with Dei-cide.
October 25, 2011 at 5:19 pm
Awkward noises as in violent BDSM? 
Welcome, from one of the sexually open members of the forum
Please give me a home where cloud buffalo roam
Where the dear and the strangers can play
Where sometimes is heard a discouraging word
But the skies are not stormy all day
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RE: Charged with Dei-cide.
October 25, 2011 at 5:37 pm
(This post was last modified: October 25, 2011 at 5:38 pm by Minimalist.)
Quote:“Jesus was not saying we should literally 'hate' our parents etc. He is saying we should put Him FIRST before our parents etc
Isn't it a little presumptuous of you to correct your own 'god,' Cox? Do you claim to know better than god himself what he means?
Quote:
New International Version (©1984)
"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters--yes, even his own life--he cannot be my disciple.
New Living Translation (©2007)
"If you want to be my disciple, you must hate everyone else by comparison--your father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters--yes, even your own life. Otherwise, you cannot be my disciple.
English Standard Version (©2001)
“If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
International Standard Version (©2008)
"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father, mother, wife, children, brothers, and sisters, as well as his own life, he can't be my disciple.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
“Whoever comes to me and does not hate his father and his mother and his brothers and his sisters and his wife and his children and even himself, he cannot be my disciple.”
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
"If people come to me and are not ready to abandon their fathers, mothers, wives, children, brothers, and sisters, as well as their own lives, they cannot be my disciples.
King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brothers, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
American King James Version
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brothers, and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
American Standard Version
If any man cometh unto me, and hateth not his own father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Bible in Basic English
And turning round, he said to them, If any man comes to me, and has not hate for his father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, and even for his life, he may not be my disciple.
Douay-Rheims Bible
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Darby Bible Translation
If any man come to me, and shall not hate his own father and mother, and wife, and children, and brothers, and sisters, yea, and his own life too, he cannot be my disciple;
English Revised Version
If any man cometh unto me, and hateth not his own father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Webster's Bible Translation
If any man cometh to me, and hateth not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Weymouth New Testament
"If any one is coming to me who does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes and his own life also, he cannot be a disciple of mine.
Young's Literal Translation
'If any one doth come unto me, and doth not hate his own father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brothers, and sisters, and yet even his own life, he is not able to be my disciple;
Here are 18 parallel translations of the line in question: 17 insist that the word is "hate." ( One bozo comes up with "abandon.") Was that you?
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RE: Charged with Dei-cide.
October 25, 2011 at 6:02 pm
Sadly, you'll have to wait until CoxRox stops huffing around and crying about the mean atheists again for the exciting answer.
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RE: Charged with Dei-cide.
October 25, 2011 at 6:43 pm
Quote:Bit selfish, no?
No, not really. Early xtians seemed to think that all this happy horseshit was going to happen very soon. They saw ole jebus as the Harold Camping of his day.
So when they invented this 'follow me' crap they had actually convinced themselves that it would be a short trip so what did it matter if you had a family?
Later, when jesus turned out to be as reliable as Harold and all the other doomsday prophets through the years they had to invent a whole new story and this particular bit became something of an embarrassment for them...as Coxie has shown.
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