Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: December 11, 2024, 5:50 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Deconversion issues.
#11
RE: Deconversion issues.
You've probably already done this, but one of the things that helped me undo the belief that my experiences were related to something supernatural was to study the biological root of those experiences. I'm a bit too embarrassed to go into specifics about some of the experiences I had, but I now know that the times I thought god was talking to me had a very simple explanation. Trust, me I know what you're going through. My de-conversion process was extremely painful at times. But it has been worth every moment of anguish.
That will never hold up in court...
Reply
#12
RE: Deconversion issues.
(October 31, 2011 at 6:14 pm)Phaedra Wrote: You've probably already done this, but one of the things that helped me undo the belief that my experiences were related to something supernatural was to study the biological root of those experiences. I'm a bit too embarrassed to go into specifics about some of the experiences I had, but I now know that the times I thought god was talking to me had a very simple explanation. Trust, me I know what you're going through. My de-conversion process was extremely painful at times. But it has been worth every moment of anguish.

I don't mean to pry but if you (or anyone else) have any internet links about the psychology/biology aspects of this I'd appreciate it. Especially those related to god talking to me. God I feel like a nut. Perhaps I ought to shut up and eat an Almond Joy candy bar. Ugh!
Reply
#13
RE: Deconversion issues.
Well first I'll ask you this: are they hallucinations? Or is it more of a strong feeling?
That will never hold up in court...
Reply
#14
RE: Deconversion issues.
There should be no experiential knowledge that would convince you of a God, those would be superstitions that you're holding on to.
Reply
#15
RE: Deconversion issues.
(October 31, 2011 at 6:34 pm)Phaedra Wrote: Well first I'll ask you this: are they hallucinations? Or is it more of a strong feeling?

Technically speaking I suppose they were both. I've had premonitions for years. when I was 11 years old I was on top of one of the world trade towers. I had a premonition that it was going to come down and the other one as well. I heard the screaming and felt the building shake. I have a plausible psychological explanation for this but not for the many other premonitions I have had.

BTW I have a degree in Psychology, unfortunately when I went to school Behaviorism was still popular so much of my education in psychology is pretty much useless unless I want to go into animal training.
Reply
#16
RE: Deconversion issues.
Would you be ok with simply not knowing what causes the premonitions? Why ascribe them to god?
Anyway...

I haven't looked into the causes of precognition much, because my experiences were not of that nature. However, the following Wikipedia page has a few explanations you might want to look into. The work of Re G. Stanford seems interesting as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precognition
That will never hold up in court...
Reply
#17
RE: Deconversion issues.
(October 31, 2011 at 6:55 pm)Phaedra Wrote: Would you be ok with simply not knowing what causes the premonitions? Why ascribe them to god?

some premonitions are explainable. some I have difficulty with. It's your subconscious having a party in your head.

For example if anyone remembers the story of the 1900 hurricane in Galveston Texas. Issac what's his name's brother (Issac was the weatherman who wrongly predicted the hurricane and though he really can't be blamed for much given the pathetic instruments and data he had he is held responsible for the over 6000 deaths caused by the storm because he didn't give the order to evacuate) had a premonition that something horrible was going to happen. In that situation all the subconscious clues were there but there was a lot of denial about hurricanes at that time. The denial was such that the most plausible explanation for the bad weather was that it was just a bad storm not a hurricane. Issac what's his name wrote a paper about how it was impossible for hurricanes to hit Texas.

Anyway, when a hurricane is approaching slight clues are there to suggest that this isn't any ordinary storm. the air smells different, it kind of smells like a tropical island, it's hard to explain. The wind comes in bands but when it comes it is steady. there are gusts with the steady wind but something is very discomforting about the steady winds that don't shift in direction. You see birds that you don't usually see. Often these birds appear to be exhausted. When the storm gets closer these birds disappear. The sky is a different color the cloud cover odd looking and the waves are high for no aparent reason (if you don't know a hurricane is approaching.) The high waves roll into shore in an odd manner -somewhat steady. If you are on low ground you notice a storm surge. There are other little clues as well

These little clues stick in your subconscious. It's not enough to piece together into something verbal. Soon there is enough in your subconscious that it erupts in your conscious as a bad feeling or perhaps an image. Words to explain it are difficult but you know something is wrong.
Reply
#18
RE: Deconversion issues.
If you want to PM me, I'd be happy to discuss it with you. I never had premonitions of that nature, but I did have other "supernatural" experiences.
That will never hold up in court...
Reply
#19
RE: Deconversion issues.
(October 31, 2011 at 7:20 pm)Phaedra Wrote: If you want to PM me, I'd be happy to discuss it with you. I never had premonitions of that nature, but I did have other "supernatural" experiences.

Either or, again I have said that I am comfortable with it. I have made peace with it. The present is still a bit difficult but I have reason to believe that I will work this out as well (no this is not a premonition it is a logical deduction based on past experiences). Anyway our back and forth might be useful to others deconverting. Perhaps one day I ought to write a book about this. for anyone else It might enlighten them. They can see what deconverts go through and, perhaps why converts are as steadfast the face of facts as they are. This is real shit.

I will have to leave the forum for tonight. it's Halloween and darkness is approaching. I have got to take my daughter round to go trick or treating.
Reply
#20
RE: Deconversion issues.
Ok, I'm back. I followed the links. All the information is stuff that I am familiar with. I have a degree in psychology. Naturally when I was a Christian I turned to psychology to explain my phenomena, everything not covered sufficiently by psychology or glossed over by denial/selection bias I used to attribute to God.

I have learned about quantum mechanics possible explanations for precognition. For some phenomena they sound more plausible than the psychological theory I am used to but only because I suck at math. A situation which prevents me from going through the stuff for myself to determine it's validity.

I am going to research the personal construct theory of psychology in greater detail http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_constructs_ and the repertory grid. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repertory_Grid

It might help explain better how people can take information/phenomena and interpret it such different ways. It might not explain fully why people experience present phenomena differently (I believe there is an element of biology in here). I think it's safe to say that Nature and nurture work together to influence our present experiences. For example if you are someone who experiences more euphoria from the experience of eating food, or taking drugs, or religious services because of some genetic factor you would automatically have a tendency to consciously and subconsciously seek out these things. I could list the things that cause people to consciously and subconsciously seek out the things which give them pleasure but that would take too long to explain.

Suffice it to say that humans are predictive people. We want something so we do things in order to get them. If we know that a certain set of behaviors gives us what we want then we do those behaviors. For example if I wanted a person to like me and to feel comfortable with me I might tell a joke. In the past jokes were a good method for reaching the desired goal so naturally I decide to tell a joke in this new situation. If the joke produces an unexpected response say a negative response from the recipient then I must learn why this is so so that I avoid the mistake in the future. After all the goal is the same, the method to reach the goal must be adjusted to the situation.

Religion is a way to make sense of the world and it's phenomena. It does so in a predictive sense. In a larger view predictability can give a sense of comfort because it gives you a sense of control. If nothing else predictability can eliminate unpleasant surprise. Say for example someone you know suddenly dies in a car wreck. You could explain the death as Gods punishment on that individual for being a sinner. All you have to do to avoid the same fate as he is to not be a sinner. You are assured safety....sort of.

What if the person was a very righteous person? Well you could believe that the death was God calling that person home early. In this case the temporary suffering the individual suffered in the car wreck pales in comparison to the wonderful place they are in now. What does this mean for you? Well if this event were to happen to you you can be assured that soon you will be very happy.

Another way to explain the event and predict the future would be to explain the event as "God's plan". In this case "God's plan" happens to everyone. we are all under the same jurisdiction. By the common definition used in CF churches God is all knowing and he has wisdom that is better than ours. In a paraphrase of a bible verse "at first we see poorly as in the reflection of a (first century) mirror. then (after we get to heaven) will will see clearly". Very Platonistic if you ask me. Suffice it to say that, like a child to their father, we must understand that this greater wisdom and knowledge resides in God not us. According to the doctrine we are too pathetic in our mortal/physical minds to understand it so we must believe by faith that it exists. Therefore when someone suddenly dies in a car crash we can explain it to be "part of God's plan" though we don't and probably won't ever have a fucking clue what the fuck is going on. But by faith......blah blah blah. I'm sure you've heard this before.

To conclude my babbling, in the absence of any organized system, Christianity provided me a construct within which to interpret the world and it's phenomena. Christianity has since not withstood scholarly evaluation especially with regards to it's foundational doctrine (namely that of the Bible being the very words of God and infallible). Christianity has been proven by many scholars in a reproducible and peer reviewed manner not to be what it claims it is therefore a new construct, a new way to interpret phenomena is now necessary. Some of the more spiritual phenomena can be explained via the psychological knowledge available today. If the rest can be explained through quantum mechanics that would be great, but this possibility seems more like a fantasy to me than anything else. All else will have to fall to the unknown, but might possibly get explained via science in the future. The latter bit is a bit unnerving but so also is the concept of randomness. The best that I can do about my 30 year stint in CF is to make peace with it and move on. or perhaps write a book about it, make lots of money, and thumb my nose at all the Christian churches out there and say "heh,heh heh you aren't getting any of it ." That latter bit is a bit of a fantasy but at least it's a funny one.

Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Atheists: What if Trump addressed your issues in America. Would you vote for him? Sanau 38 5995 March 30, 2020 at 8:15 pm
Last Post: Anomalocaris
  Age of Deconversion John 6IX Breezy 138 14762 November 28, 2019 at 2:09 pm
Last Post: downbeatplumb
  Deconversion and some doubts Jake 232 19265 August 13, 2019 at 11:28 am
Last Post: GrandizerII
  Are US Atheists just people with daddy issues? Ronia 22 9692 August 20, 2017 at 4:49 pm
Last Post: Thumpalumpacus
  the Science of deconversion? yuriythebest 25 6571 February 22, 2013 at 4:30 am
Last Post: Mystical
  The Process of Deconversion FallentoReason 6 3008 January 12, 2013 at 5:36 pm
Last Post: Angrboda
  Separate the issues Opsnyder 7 2725 June 29, 2012 at 9:03 am
Last Post: KichigaiNeko
  Outing onesself as atheis; family issues Trina 17 7450 August 29, 2011 at 10:37 pm
Last Post: Violet
  My issues with Atheism, Lets talk :) LoveandLight 94 39258 February 25, 2010 at 4:33 am
Last Post: leo-rcc



Users browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)