pop morality

[Drich]

Important questions for theists:

1What are the goals of morality?

2How do you know if you are achieving those goals?

3Why should I care about your proposed goals?

1)To abolish works based thinking.

2)When one does not judge another based on what he has and has not done.

3) It removes or invalidates performance based judgement and takes the mantel of righteousness you all so desperatly try and earn, and makes it a gift. Why is this important? Because it means sinners (those who can not help but sin, yet who hate their sin) can be found righteous without living perfect lives.

4) destruction in Hell

[robvalue]

Wow, OK...

That's really not what I was expecting. Thanks for answering.

Can you explain what your answer to number 1 means? It doesn't seem to include anything about human wellbeing whatsoever.

[robvalue]

OK, and the only reason I should care about this morality is that I'll be punished if I don't.

Is that about right?

I'll be interested to hear what this purpose of morality actually means, and whether it has anything to do with human wellbeing.

No other theists... No one else knows what the goal of their morality is?

[TheRocketSurgeon]

Can you explain what your answer to number 1 means? It doesn't seem to include anything about human wellbeing whatsoever.

It's Paul's unique flavor on Christianity, since Jesus seems to heavily to have favored humanist actions in order to get into heaven, such as the sell everything that you have and give it to the poor stuff. Of course, they deny that's what Jesus meant literally (which is odd, since everything else they like is literal except the parables, which are clearly parbles), because it violates the Paulianity Cult's ideas he so kindly outlined for us, above.

Catholics aren't the only ones who favor that Pauline theological explanation of salvation, but they're most apt to favor it. There are numerous old jokes, made before the clergy molestation scandals made it the easy target for Catholicism, about how Catholics like to torment themselves with their unworthiness. I've told it before, but it's my favorite atheist joke:

"An atheist dies and goes to Hell. Of course, he's very surprised by this! But there it is: the River Styx, and the opening of the great iron gates beneath the sign 'Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here'. Standing there, as the gates open, is Satan himself, all ten feet of glistening red demon-flesh, bat-wings, hooves, tail, and all. In a booming voice, Satan says 'Welcome, lost soul, to your eternity in Hell.' 

"Thrembling with fear, the atheist follows the massive bat-wing-covered back as Satan turns to lead him in. He can't really hear what Satan is saying, so overcome is he with shock and terror at finding himself in this situation. But after a few seconds, he starts to look around and notices that he's walking on lush grass. The sun is shining, the birds are singing, and all around him he sees people having a great time; they're laughing together around picnic baskets, they're riding roller coasters, they're engaging in orgies, and basically having the best time anyone can imagine.

"Satan finally stops droning on about Hell long enough to notice his new charge has fallen behind. He returns and tells the atheist, 'Oh man I'm sorry, I always forget to tell new people. All that stuff you heard about us from the other side? Total propaganda! They're just trying to win converts by scaring you while you're there on earth. Can you blame them? Great tactic; wish I'd thought of it. Don't worry, we're cool as can be, here. Anything you want, and I mean anything, all you have to do is ask!

"The atheist is greatly relieved by this, as you can imagine, and starts to listen as Satan continues the tour. But then it happens! They crest a hill and there it is, The Lake of Fire™, containing billions of souls in flaming agony, tearing their flesh from their own bodies as it burns, only to have it regrow again instantly, and wailing in self-pitying agony.

"The atheist recoils in horror, but Satan rushes to calm him: 'Dude! Don't worry. This is just for the Cathlics. *shrug* They insisted!!!"

[robvalue]

Interesting, thanks

So... Drich is saying morality isn't about being a good person, it's just about following arbitrary rules a dictator has laid out? Is that right?

Wow that sounds likes a blast.

No, wait... he said morality is about abolishing works based thinking. So I succeed by going around doing the abolishing? What if there is none to abolish? Do I still win?

[vorlon13]

Wasn't there something about imbibing poison and bebothering serpents too ??

Not really 'works', it seems, handling a serpent doesn't feed the naked nor clothe the hungry, it's just a sign the rest of us could note that the indoctrination took hold I think . . . .

[TheRocketSurgeon]

 it's just a sign the rest of us could note that the indoctrination took hold I think . . . .

Yeah, it's just like our indoctrination, where we repeat "Hail Richard Dawkins, full of brains, the science is with thee; blessed art thou among researchers, and blessed is the fruit of thy mind, evolution. Doctor Dawkins, father of the meme, think for us heathens, now and until the hour of our death. Amen." at least forty times at our weekly Atheist Camp meetings.

[Athene]

OK, and the only reason I should care about this morality is that I'll be punished if I don't.

Is that about right?

I'll be interested to hear what this purpose of morality actually means, and whether it has anything to do with human wellbeing.

No other theists... No one else knows what the goal of their morality is?

The goal of this morality (according to Drich) is to demonstrate what stupid, dirty-birdie, demonic ass-faces humans actually are:
Gotcha! It's impossible to be "moral" or good enough. Humans are too gross to hang with God!

Only accepting Magic Jesus' gift can make us "righteous" in his Father's eyes. Accept it, and gain freedom from sweating any of this Morality crap. 

It matters NOT; The penalty's already been paid. The rules no longer apply once you're above The Law.

Of course, the OP suggests that Drich doesn't see how this mindset can and DOES pose the same danger to society as unchecked popular morality; Or that he simply doesn't care.

And why should Drich or his god give a shit about human well-being here on Earth, hmm? 
Heaven is forever and ever!

[Foxaèr]

You are correct, Drich, we have become a society that depends upon the morality of those whom we place too much emphasis. Hollywood is not a source of morality.

[dyresand]

Interesting, thanks

So... Drich is saying morality isn't about being a good person, it's just about following arbitrary rules a dictator has laid out? Is that right?

Wow that sounds likes a blast.

No, wait... he said morality is about abolishing works based thinking. So I succeed by going around doing the abolishing? What if there is none to abolish? Do I still win?

Except it really doesn't matter at all once you figure out hey god is all knowing.. so yeah that's a thing.