(October 11, 2015 at 5:48 pm)Constable Dorfl Wrote:(September 30, 2015 at 6:33 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: This is actually the first time I have heard of Samosata, and I haven't found, that he is normally brought up, when discussing early testaments concerning Jesus. But none the less, I think you are missing the point of bringing up a hostile witness. It isn't that they agree with the persons case (as then they would not be a hostile witness). They are brought into question, because even though they are hostile, they do confirm particular evidence in regards to what is being said. In this instance and others, it confirms that Christianity was known at this point in time. This goes against the mythers, and those claiming legend.
You're wrong on this, because all Lucian of Samosota does is confirm that the christian cult existed at a date after 125CE. Nobody disputes this. What he categorically does not do, and what christian apologists essentially lie in portraying him as doing, is show that Jesus existed, started a religion, and that that religion is based off the "one true" god.
Yes, I believe that is what I had said. I find it interesting that I'm wrong, but you seem to agree with me. The usefulness is in dispelling those who would claim late dating and legend. It can be reliably shown that the Church was fairly well established early in the 2nd Century and prior across a large geographic area. Lucian of Samosota was only born in 125 A.D. and I'm unsure what time he wrote this, so it makes him specifically less useful for this purpose (and is probably why it is the first I have heard of him). Others can be used more successfully to place Christianity as established earlier in the 1st century. This goes to show that these events are reported during the time they are claimed, and unlikely the result of legend. (Legends must distance themselves from the facts necessarily). We have a number of accounts from multiple sources of Jesus. And these are also backed up by others in the early 2nd century who quoted them, and attributed their Church founding to the Apostles and Jesus's disciples.
However, if you have evidence or reason to believe that this is all myth or conspiracy theory, please do share!
