Without the Shedding of Blood There is No Remission of Sin

[Harry Nevis]

None of your points answers the question of why god has to require blood and torment in hell. He set the whole thing up. Put the tree of knowledge in the garden, confused the people’s language when they were working in harmony at the tower of Babel, let Satan run free on the Earth. None of these are the actions of a just god.

Christians sound like abused women when you defend the indefensible and then tell me I don’t understand.

There is more to understanding scripture than grasping isolated doctrines. I look at the whole picture and that’s where everything falls apart.

It is you who are wasting your time if you think I would love or worship a god who whose very nature requires a violent blood sacrifice of the innocent for the guilty. I cannot, by any stretch of the word, call that justice.

Sounds like you left God because you didn't like him.  Are you an atheist?

Nice dodge.

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It's not god that we call names but the god that the church invented. I'll say it again, I don't start with Jesus shedding his blood. I start with your god setting things up for Adam to sin and then making up this blood requirement for the sin he set up.  Doesn't god take some responsibility for his own part in this and become a sinner himself in need of atonement for the sin he caused Adam to commit?

No god doesn't have to live by our standards, nor do we have to live by the standards the church made up and claimed were god's.  You can't make up this blood thirsty god and then try to understand why we don't love him.

You don't seem to want to answer my question as to whether or not you are an atheist.  Your arguments about the christian God hold no weight as far as I can see other than to say you think he is evil.  You're just applying your own logic to how you believe God should act and that you don't believe in him.  Since God is the creator of us and is a different entity, our logic cannot be determined to be the motivating force for his actions.  When he determined that Jesus must die for our sins he wasn't using your logic.  We just know that is what had to be and it was done in love for us.  Do you believe in a god who fits your image of what he should be or are you an atheist?

Since logic goes out the window as far as understanding god, i guess the terms like, "love", "justice", etc. don't mean much either.

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Yeah.  I just got back from church and felt the need to say something meaningful.  Now if only you could say something meaningful, that would be a shocker.

Meaningful to who?

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Sorry I didn't follow your script. But I knew you'd say something to make god sound neurotic, and you did.. Does it really matter why god did these things? It all boils down to the end justifying the means.

They're making the story up as they go along, revising wherever needed and saying whatever needs to be said at the moment. What else can they do with a book as equivocal as the bible?

In short. Without sin there is only God's will. Only God's will =no ability to choose anything outside of it. Enter the knoweledge of god's will and of evil. Now we have choice for the first time.

Problem chose sin= choose death.

but if sinner choose to repent, they choose life and God.

God from the beginning set up the process of sin and repentance so that we may choose to be with God, or to separate ourselves from Him.

But we don't choose sin do we?  it's chosen for us!  Not out of anything we did, just out of what 2 people did.  Mmmm, love that taste of justice!