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Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism?
#33
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism?
I owe it to Whateverist to more fully support my claim that atheism leads inexorably to nihilism, or more precisely existential absurdity. This will be a long post.

Clearly, the term nihilism does encompass a large number of related concepts. Thus I do not think a single line of reasoning leads from atheism (as simply a lack of belief in God or gods) to nihilism, moral or otherwise. As Genkaus correctly points out, failure to find a solution to nihilism doesn’t make it false, which would be an argument from ignorance. At the same time, no one cannot justify saying they have a raison d’etre (if it matters to them) without having some way to ground the meaning of their life with three basic concepts: purpose, lasting value and significance. As I see it, atheism undermines all three. And without that solid foundation, all atheists are tacit nihilists no matter how adamantly they deny it.

To me, the truly honest atheist is one that accepts existential absurdity. When I was an atheist, I found myself able to counter the occasional moments of despair with a pleasing noble defiance of my fate, that “rage against that dark night”; the myth of Sisyphus; Zarathustra’s dancing; and all that sort of heady stuff. But there is nothing wrong with simply focusing on the mundane, just getting on with getting on, and “enjoying the ride.”

One of the actual joys of atheism is defining your own purpose in life. Such joy is an emotional response that doesn’t rationally counter nihilism. When someone defines purpose as that outcome towards which something is directed, then they are invoking Final Cause. Atheism, per se, does not exclude final causes, but the reduction of the world to purely efficient causes acting on material bodies does. Therefore ‘purposes’ are illusions born of viewing higher-order processes that are fully determined at lower levels of order. So while it would appear as-if intelligent agents have goals, in actuality there are no final ends and it is irrational to speak about any life having purpose.

When people talk about a life’s purpose they usually are thinking of a higher criteria that just goal-seeking behavior and final ends. What they really mean is that their life counted from something, i.e. their life has, or will have, lasting value. Value requires that someone appreciates and desires something which is valued. The value of life for the person living it, seems self-evident, since all other valuables require already having a life. But because life ends, the lasting value of a person’s life depends on their life having continuing value to those remain alive and future generations. Then the sun blows up and with it any value our lives once had. Thus at a bare minimum, for human life to have value there must be some enduring agent to whom human life is valuable.

So far I have addresses purpose and value. That leaves significance, or meaning, and will, I suspect be my most contested claim. Unfortunately it is getting late, so I’ll leave you with those two for now and return to significance later.
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Messages In This Thread
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by Exian - October 7, 2014 at 12:00 am
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by genkaus - October 7, 2014 at 12:16 am
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by Exian - October 7, 2014 at 12:45 am
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by Exian - October 4, 2014 at 5:34 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 4, 2014 at 5:46 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by Exian - October 4, 2014 at 6:18 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 4, 2014 at 8:25 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by Jenny A - October 4, 2014 at 10:10 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 4, 2014 at 5:58 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 4, 2014 at 6:07 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by Exian - October 4, 2014 at 7:28 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by Exian - October 4, 2014 at 8:55 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 5, 2014 at 4:12 am
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 5, 2014 at 10:55 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 6, 2014 at 12:21 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by Tonus - October 6, 2014 at 12:41 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by Tonus - October 7, 2014 at 5:59 am
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 7, 2014 at 1:22 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 7, 2014 at 2:03 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 7, 2014 at 2:18 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 7, 2014 at 3:16 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by Jenny A - October 8, 2014 at 10:40 am
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by Tonus - October 8, 2014 at 11:02 am
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 7, 2014 at 7:28 am
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by Chas - October 7, 2014 at 10:12 am
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by Jenny A - October 7, 2014 at 10:48 am
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 7, 2014 at 1:49 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by Chas - October 7, 2014 at 3:12 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by Exian - October 4, 2014 at 11:49 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by Neo-Scholastic - October 5, 2014 at 1:50 am
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 5, 2014 at 4:34 am
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by Chad32 - October 5, 2014 at 11:02 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 5, 2014 at 11:08 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 6, 2014 at 6:21 am
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 6, 2014 at 5:29 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by Violet - October 6, 2014 at 10:20 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by genkaus - October 6, 2014 at 10:59 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 6, 2014 at 12:46 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by Tonus - October 6, 2014 at 12:55 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 6, 2014 at 12:58 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by Chas - October 7, 2014 at 12:04 am
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 6, 2014 at 1:06 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 6, 2014 at 1:11 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 6, 2014 at 1:15 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 6, 2014 at 1:17 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 6, 2014 at 1:20 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 6, 2014 at 1:26 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 6, 2014 at 1:23 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 6, 2014 at 1:35 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 6, 2014 at 1:39 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 6, 2014 at 1:42 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 6, 2014 at 1:47 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 6, 2014 at 1:52 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 6, 2014 at 1:54 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 6, 2014 at 2:02 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by Exian - October 6, 2014 at 4:42 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by Jenny A - October 6, 2014 at 11:46 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 7, 2014 at 2:55 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 7, 2014 at 3:36 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 7, 2014 at 5:26 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 7, 2014 at 5:12 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 7, 2014 at 5:57 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 7, 2014 at 6:33 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 7, 2014 at 7:46 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 10, 2014 at 10:04 am
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by Mystical - October 11, 2014 at 11:05 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by Chas - October 12, 2014 at 9:30 am
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 12, 2014 at 10:18 am
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by Chas - October 12, 2014 at 12:01 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 12, 2014 at 12:24 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by genkaus - October 12, 2014 at 2:31 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by Chas - October 12, 2014 at 2:31 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 12, 2014 at 4:06 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by genkaus - October 12, 2014 at 5:22 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by Chas - October 12, 2014 at 7:24 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by Chas - October 7, 2014 at 9:40 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by genkaus - October 10, 2014 at 1:40 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by Exian - October 9, 2014 at 9:38 am
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 10, 2014 at 6:11 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by genkaus - October 10, 2014 at 6:25 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 11, 2014 at 3:34 am
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by genkaus - October 11, 2014 at 6:59 am
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by genkaus - October 11, 2014 at 7:36 am
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by genkaus - October 11, 2014 at 10:26 am
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by genkaus - October 11, 2014 at 12:16 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 11, 2014 at 6:04 am
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 11, 2014 at 11:20 am
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by genkaus - October 11, 2014 at 12:39 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 11, 2014 at 1:09 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by genkaus - October 11, 2014 at 1:35 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by Mystical - October 11, 2014 at 11:45 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 11, 2014 at 6:40 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by genkaus - October 11, 2014 at 7:18 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 11, 2014 at 8:35 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by genkaus - October 11, 2014 at 10:12 pm
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 12, 2014 at 5:36 am
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by genkaus - October 12, 2014 at 8:12 am
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 12, 2014 at 9:43 am
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by Tonus - October 12, 2014 at 9:52 am
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by genkaus - October 12, 2014 at 10:22 am
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by fr0d0 - October 12, 2014 at 11:23 am
RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism? - by genkaus - October 12, 2014 at 12:21 pm

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