Suicide: An Ethical Delimna

[Losty]

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But, you're not demonstrating that there is a negative effect on the greater good. The basis of your argument is completely hypothetical, and it seems like it's the impact of person's living behavior that's much more of a sticking point with you than the suicide.

I think the majority of suicides are probably due to chemical imbalances. But so are fits of rage, the lusts that lead to infidelity, the incessant hunger of gluttony, etc.

Are we to accept all counterproductive behaviors under the umbrella of understanding, because we understand brain chemistry better now, or are we still going to see ethics as a relevant field of philosophy?

The relevance of ethics is ITSELF hypothetical. But it is apparently at least relevant enough to merit a thread and to talk about it. So you tell me-- on what basis would you judge an act as being ethical or unethical?

1. I explicitly did not accuse you of formulating your opinion on a basis of hatred. But, it's clear that you have a distaste for acts of suicide outside of the realm of euthanasia. I do, too. But, I can't judge anybody else for what they do, because you don't know what's running through their heads and you don't know what they are thinking. If you can't even motivate yourself to wake up tomorrow, how do you possibly motivate yourself to make a radical change to your lifestyle and keep going? How do you care about the rest of the world when you can't even care about your own?

If we are going to mix arguments about free will and determinism with arguments about what is ethical, we're going to have a problem. Is it "unethical" for a pedophile to assault children, if his brain chemistry inevitably leads to that act, without any real possibility of acting otherwise?

There's hypocrisy in the selectivity of applying determinism to some behaviors and not to others. I believe we either have to stand strong in applying ethical ideas to all, or we have to abandon the field altogether, and end the discussion with "Fuck it. Do what you want, and if it brings pain and suffering to others, tough. Determinism means never having to say you're sorry."

2. It is a behavior a lot of people hate, even though it has virtually zero impact on anybody other than those directly involved in its practice, and it's not our place to tell them they are wrong, or bad, for wanting to do it.

Why not? Why shouldn't people hold views, and express them? Are humans not a social species?

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I'm sorry, lust, gluttony, laziness? I didn't realize you were religious. We will never come to an agreement on this because I think you have a skewed sense of morality and you probably think I do too.

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When making ethical considerations, one doesn't normally balance one's own needs against a stranger's. I wouldn't, for example, decide that I need money more than Mr. Smith does, and that it is therefore ethical for me to steal his money.

You're right and if I needed to live I wouldn't kill Mr. Smith in order to stay alive. If I needed to die I wouldn't force Mr. Smith to kill me. My life is my own. Regardless of how it may or may not affect other people, no one else has any right to claim ownership of my life. So killing myself doesn't fit with your analogy at all.