I can feel your anger

[The Grand Nudger]

Nope, you're still really, really missing the point.

No, you still don't have one. (I thought we covered this?)

You say that theism is responsible for some action because ultimately, the set of beliefs that motivated that action were theistic--i.e., included the belief, "At least one god exists".

No, I say people are responsible, and their religious excuses for why they did whatever they did should be ridiculed ad naus.

You say that atheism can't be responsible, because atheism alone doesn't justify actions; atheism is defined by a lack of belief in God, and nothing else. That is, you need atheism PLUS some other belief in order to justify something like murder.

No, I say that you haven't yet imagined a scenario or given an example of atheism being responsible for such things, but I did mention that you might get what you were looking for if you waited long enough, now didn't I? I think I see the distinction you're missing. You need atheism and another belief -that is not wholly dependent upon or motivated by- atheism. That's just my opinion, clearly someone may find such a belief someday, but again...I don't think you've been able to give an example of such a belief either. In the case of theism and that second belief. I believe in god and god demands that we kill blasphemers, the distinction is pretty simple isn't it?

But the same thing is true of theism. Nobody is motivated to kill by the belief "At least one god exists." No, they're motivated by a particular implementation of theism--something like Catholicism, or Protestantism, or Islam, and so forth. That's theism PLUS a bunch of other, specific beliefs--beliefs that are not a necessary result of "At least one god exists."

Uh-huh.....see the above for the distinction (in case you missed it).

Let's look at a specific example. Suppose Mr. A believes that God exists, and is telling him to kill Mr. Z because you're not Christian, while Mr. B doesn't believe that God exists, but believes that he should kill you because you're Jewish.

Now, Mr. A's justification is no more a result of theism than B's justification is a result of atheism. It is not a result of "At least one god exists" that "God is telling Mr. A to kill Mr. Z because Z isn't Christian." Likewise, it is not a result of atheism that Jews should be killed.

Except that Mr A believes a god exists to talk to him in the first place. You're correct though, Mr B just sounds like he doesn't like teh Jewz.

Do gods that don't exist talk to people....(rhetorical)? Yes, Clive, "god told me to" is a result of "at least one god exists"...there's really no way to spin this....

Rather, what is to blame are the particular set of beliefs that are motivating A's and B's actions. In A's case, the set of beliefs implements theism; in B's case, it implements atheism (i.e., it does not implement theism).

Yes, A's implements theism, because god told him to do something, and that god at least must exist...but just how does B implement atheism? Care to elaborate?

Let me ask it this way: Can you give me a series of valid deductions by which theism (the class of all belief systems that include "At least one god exists") is to blame by A's actions, but atheism (the class of all belief systems that do not include "At least one god exists") is not to blame by B's actions?

You already handled that yourself, in the above....Personally though, I don't like to pass the buck. Mr A's "god" is just his own desire to kill.

No,

Yes?