One question for Christians

[ronedee]

... Except if, as I detailed, the creator has a really excellent reason to lie. Maybe it's a part of his plan. Maybe something was off in the mind he constructed leading to misinterpretation or mistranslation of his words to a human mind, but he's too concerned about free will to alter it. Maybe satan's been tricking you from the beginning. Maybe a whole bunch of things.

See, you guys make a big show of putting god on the Unknowable shelf to keep him free from criticism, but at the same time, that very shelf puts a big question mark next to anything you guys want to say you know about him. If he's unknowable, if his plans for the universe are so vast as to be beyond comprehension, if his ways are indeed mysterious, then you guys know pretty much the same things about him as we do, and that amounts to approximately nothing.

So, when you say that jesus is the way, the truth and what have you, you have no justification for believing that to be true, because for all you know, god was just doing his Job thing again and trying to temp mankind away from him with a false messiah, and you guys all fell for it. You could all be hellbound for being christians. Do you know more than your god?

So... now you are telling me what I know? How is it somebody with so many, many questions and "maybe's"....knows so much about what he doesn't know?

I would have questions. And depending on the answers, I may or may not consider him worthy of worship.

Don't presume to tell me what I believe.

Do you believe even in your wildest dreams that GOD needs to answer to you? "One day...every knee will bend and every lip profess the Lord Jesus."

That day... I cannot wait for my friend!

This would prompt additional questions, and a certain amount of puzzlement, given how inefficient this whole sacrifice gig is, but not outright scorn. See, unlike you, I don't assume I know everything right off the bat. There could be something to this I don't yet understand.

I see some glimmer of hope here my friend? If you could just ponder that one statement: "I love you so much, that I paid the price for sin." You may get the TRUE answer!

I would need to be shown something to indicate to me that this god thing is worth investigation. Oddly enough, so far theists have only presented me with, well, petty bullshit like you are right now.

Its not petty BS otherwise you wouldn't be talking to me. IF you really want answers, ask! The real teacher isn't anyone you can see. Its the Holy Spirit which was sent after Jesus died, to teach ALL MEN! We are all students. There is only one teacher. Because there is only one who knows everything!

I know very little for certain. But I know enough to know that. I don't make presuppositions about reality, after all; that's the game of the religious.

"REALITY" Have we not had this conversation before?! Everything is based on Theory. Reality is even a theory, and is in the eyes of the beholder!

And you've made persumptions about most everything [I've] said! At least I'll admit to mine!

You wrote that about me. I don't think it's a terribly accurate summation, especially given that in the post after it in the thread it came from, I linked you to the charity I belong to, but I guess that fact would get in the way of your proselytizing idiocy, so you pretended it didn't exist.

I did, however, find it to be a hilarious example of theistic hyperbole, so into the sig it went.

So, you give to a charity and that makes you what? Do you want a list of the charities I have? Or the places I've gone to volunteer, and help? No!

I'm not that high on myself...nor do I feel its ever enough! And.... my purpose isn't for man's approval. "...For you have already received your reward, here on earth."

You can quote me anytime btw! That's almost as good as being on atheists' ignore list!

We want intelligent answers. I'm not surprised you don't have any.

And what praytell is the intelligent answer that you are looking for? God in the form of an Quadratic Equation? Or so grand phenomenon in the sky? All would be deemed as a trick! That's why Jesus never performed miracles as proof! NEVER!

And that is why He came in humility. Because it's not about seeing with the mind...It's about seeing with the heart!

You're assuming a lot of things about me. Do you know me? If not, how can you possibly justify these things you say?

I know what you don't have. I also know your motives. And they are not for answers. They are to tell me whats wrong with me. There are only 2 atheists that I met here that truely have open minds.

Until I buy into your dogma, I won't be given a reason to believe in your dogma. Not really how rationality works.

"Rationality"? ...see "Reality"

Alright Pious Dan, get back to the parish, would you? This is starting to smell like preaching.

I like using Jesus' words! No one has a good comeback!

Then you were not like me. I'm quite happy. I have a wife that loves me, a nice place to live, a future to think of. I start a new job on monday. I even have a muffin with my name on it in the other room. So you see, my life's pretty good.

Hey I'm glad for you! I pray for you and the others every night! So, maybe God had something to do with your new job?

I wouldn't brag about that muffin.... Especially if you have a little one or a dog that's not house broken!

Please, do keep telling me what an awful person I must be. See, baseless presuppositions, slander and threats really convince me of your position. Keep going! Your circuitous, rude and presumptuous cajoling has almost inspired me to pick up a bible.

Onward christian soldier!

Ok! I do get excited once in a while! But I'm only guilty of presumption and being rude! It rubs off from being around here too much.

I didn't hate myself when I was without God... it just sucked! thats true [for me]. My life is much better now that I have Him. And I truely wish everyone could experience His Divine Love!

Seriously.... Good Luck with the new job! I hope..and pray, all works out for you!