Is purposeless torture moral?

[The Grand Nudger]

What of he who bring you this message and does not repersent a church or even a specific denomination?

What of he who thinks his faith is original or clever when it is neither? Look, I'm exceedingly familiar with your brand of batshittery, you haven't attempted any arguments or apologetics on these forums that my father in law hasn't beaten to death trying to convert me to christianity for the last 5 years. Both of you seem to think these ideas are brilliant and fresh, both of you seem to think that I have a misunderstanding of your faith, both of you are woefully wrong. Don't you think it's just a little bit presumptuous to assume that you are the only person here who is familiar with this stuff? How likely do you think it is that you've hit upon some never before heard or seen apologetics (rhetorical, you already laid out your thoughts on this matter in a post here on these forums, you clearly think that you are a brilliant apologist)? Do you imagine yourself to be the originator of a new brand of christianity, free from the influence of this or that church, denomination, or influence? Your faith is that of the burnt over belt. It's a smattering of items from the spiritual buffet that you feel can make a strong "argument". It's a faith of redefinition, sophistry, and assertion. Again, the secular influence on traditional christianity.

If you think that the shit you've tossed out here doesn't represent specific denominations and churches then you need to handle due diligence with regards to your own beliefs. If you're imagining that you are parroting the words of christ, and that these words do not represent specific denominations and churches, again, complete lack of due diligence. Just who do you think put these words in your mouth (and in jesus' mouth)?

[Greatest I am]

[Would it be "moral" or Righteous to drag one of you who have been trying to put distance between yourselves and God all of your natural lives, into heaven for an eternity kicking and screaming? If you can not stand the thought of God for 60 or 70 years what makes you think you can tolerate His presents for an eternity?

What makes you think any good man could be happy in heaven while watching his loved ones burn in hell forever without going insane?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc

Better to shovel coal in hell than to spend eternity in heaven watching friends, neighbors and our children in torture and flame forever.
Only a sick mind would conceive of such a situation or wish it upon anyone. That is why God would not do such because then, heaven would be hell.
If those in heaven did not go insane then they could not have once been human or good.

You should contemplate on why you love to hate so much.

Regards
DL

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His *presence for an eternity can only happen if he exists to begin with. We don't spend our lives hating your god, we spend them lacking any belief that he's real. We may hate the concept of that god, due to what we see and hear from it's followers, but that is not the same thing.

+ 1

Regards
DL

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I think it may be morally justified then to try to torture the information out of him.

http://www.livescience.com/4651-torture-...rking.html

The question was not on the efficacy of torture. It was on the morality of doing it for the greater good of the million who are guaranteed to die without it.

Regards
DL

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Well, Genesis really doesn't give anyone a good moral role model to follow. The GOD depicted in the bible can best be described as a psychopath with many psychological disorders that includes a severe case of Volcanic Narcissism. :/

Well done my friend.

Regards
DL

[Godscreated]

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Godchild, Did you not read the definition of the two words I posted? Clearly not... And its always interesting to see theists such as yourself try to rationalize such things on a game of word semantics so you can claim such things a being "righteous". It's where genocide and infanticide suddenly become morally perfect concepts and beliefs.. It's where hate and bigotry become moral fortitude. And that really exposes how psychologically messed up many Christians are. It's literally laughable when you see a Christian cry about being Pro-life when they worship a deity they claim has committed mass abortion, genocide, and infanticide.. It's like you can't get stupid to be any smarter or intellectually grander than sheer and utter stupidity. So lets look at the type argument Godchild wrote:

Did not see the word torture in those verses, did see an application of judgement by an absolute righteous God.

He worships a genocidal and infanticidal role model.. His religious beliefs and doctrine view such things as righteous. It why you get nut cases like Hitler committing genocide.. Lets make a comparison here:

Genesis 6:7 And the LORD said, "I will wipe this human race I have created from the face of the earth. Yes, and I will destroy every living thing--all the people, the large animals, the small animals that scurry along the ground, and even the birds of the sky. I am sorry I ever made them."

Genesis 6:17 I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish.

Genesis 7:4 Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made."

I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish.

Genesis 7:21 Every living thing that moved on the earth perished--birds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind.

Genesis 7:22 Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died.

Deut: 13:13 -18

13that certain® worthless fellows have gone out among you and have drawn away the inhabitants of their city, saying, 'Let us go and serve other gods,' which you have not known, 14then you shall inquire and make search and ask(S) diligently. And behold, if it be true and certain that such an abomination has been done among you, 15you shall surely put the inhabitants of that city to the sword, devoting it to destruction,[c] all who are in it and its cattle, with the edge of the sword. 16You shall gather all its spoil into the midst of its open square and(T) burn the city and all its spoil with fire, as a whole burnt offering to the LORD your God. It shall be a(U) heap forever. It shall not be built again. 17(V) None of the devoted things shall stick to your hand,(W) that the LORD may turn from the fierceness of his anger and show you mercy and have compassion on you and multiply you,(X) as he swore to your fathers, 18if you obey the voice of the LORD your God,(Y) keeping all his commandments that I am commanding you today, and doing what is right in the sight of the LORD your God.

OR you get crazy stuff like this:

And by the same word, the present heavens and earth have been stored up for fire. They are being kept for the day of judgment, when ungodly people will be destroyed.

And lets look at Hitler:

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

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"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)

Compared to:

Switchblade on newsvine:

Like I said, I am willing to die for my belief that homosexuality is wrong and there should be a law on the books stating it is wrong. Passing a law encouraging homosexuality, making it 'legal,' or giving the lifesyle marriage rights will not change my mind or stop me from fighting homosexuality.

Other Christian fundamentalists and extremists:

“I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good… Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a biblical duty, we are called on by God to conquer this country. We don’t want equal time. We don’t want pluralism.”

Randall Terry, founder of Operation Rescue

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“So let us be blunt about it: We must use the doctrine of religious liberty to gain independence for Christian schools until we train up a generation of people who know that there is no religious neutrality, no neutral law, no neutral education, and no neutral civil government. Then they will be get busy in constructing a Bible-based social, political and religious order which finally denies the religious liberty of the enemies of God.”

–Gary North

See any resemblance? Yep, the same personality types and the same kind of psychotic mentality.. This to which is a huge contrast to something like being Ahimsa:

Ahimsa (Sanskrit: अहिंसा; IAST: ahiṃsā, Pāli: avihiṃsā) is a term meaning to do no harm (literally: the avoidance of violence – himsa). The word is derived from the Sanskrit root hims – to strike; himsa is injury or harm, a-himsa is the opposite of this, i.e. non harming or nonviolence.[1][2]

It is an important tenet of the Indian religions (Hinduism, Jainism and Buddhism). Ahimsa means kindness and non-violence towards all living things including non-human animals; it respects living beings as a unity, the belief that all living things are connected.

So when you see people like GODChild claim such things as genocide as "righteous", you know he's seriously messed up psychologically. To give you an example, it would be no different than someone here worshiping GODchild if he were to do the following:

GodChild gets a Camera and goes to record himself drowning baby bunnies, kittens, puppies, or a few newborn infants while exclaiming how they are an abomination, unclean, and how he's sorry for ever having to share this world with them. He then Puts it on youtube and then comes back to me on how that was rationally, morally, and ethically righteous. Then he demands you love him for it while his followers ask us if we have enough love him for drowning a baby bunny.. Kinda like this one :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSFB2ytWJLQ

But he has competition as he can than place himself right up there with the GI's that killed a puppy!.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdyN2_GJmP8

Hey, that was a unclean puppy, so GOD shouldn't care.

Well, Genesis really doesn't give anyone a good moral role model to follow. The GOD depicted in the bible can best be described as a psychopath with many psychological disorders that includes a severe case of Volcanic Narcissism. :/

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You're an absolute idiot. I'm not going to discuss this crap with you, if you want to know how I feel about hell go check my posts.

[Minimalist]

The question was not on the efficacy of torture. It was on the morality of doing it for the greater good of the million who are guaranteed to die without it.

Then it should be because you can torture the motherfucker to death and if all you get out of it are lies then the million will still die and YOU become a torturing motherfucker yourself.

[TheJackel]

You're an absolute idiot. I'm not going to discuss this crap with you, if you want to know how I feel about hell go check my posts.

If you can sit there can rationalize genocide and infanticide ect as "righteous", what do you expect people to think of you? Did you ever seriously stop and think about this at all? You are either seriously messed up, or you didn't actually spend the time to contemplate the issue what-so-ever. I didn't write that response to attack you, I wrote to make a point that I hoped you might get..

BTW, it's not a matter of how you feel, it's a matter of what's morally right and wrong.. We didn't get how Hitler felt, but he surely wasn't at all morally righteous was he? .. Keep in mind that when you sit here trying to justify such things, it reflects on your character.

[TheJackel]

Typo fix:

If you can sit there *and* rationalize genocide and infanticide ect as "righteous"

[Cinjin]

I see the monotheistic god as having the mentality of "Piss me off and I will beat the shit out of you, forever. But if you do exactly what I say everything will be okay I'll allow you to grovel at my feet for the rest of eternity instead of turning you into a human torch.." Sounds more like a hostage situation to me.

FTFY

[Greatest I am]

The question was not on the efficacy of torture. It was on the morality of doing it for the greater good of the million who are guaranteed to die without it.

Then it should be because you can torture the motherfucker to death and if all you get out of it are lies then the million will still die and YOU become a torturing motherfucker yourself.

Better that than to do nothing.
But go ahead and watch the million die without lifting a finger. That is more moral to a fool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xa6c3OTr6yA

Regards
DL

[Cinjin]

Please show me were you find the word torture in scripture, if you can not then please drop the subject, this subject has been posted to death.

Copout.

The words Trinity or Rapture are not in the scriptures either. That doesn't mean their principles are not in there.

Burning billions of souls for the rest of eternity is torture and if you don't believe me, place a flame under your kid's finger for 1 minute.

I'm so tired of your tired semantics arguments. Punishment would simply be denial into Heaven ... no no ... TORTURE is excruciating infliction of pain that never comes to an end.

Get over yourselves and just admit it.

[Reforged]

What of he who bring you this message and does not repersent a church or even a specific denomination?

If you think that the shit you've tossed out here doesn't represent specific denominations and churches then you need to handle due diligence with regards to your own beliefs. If you're imagining that you are parroting the words of christ, and that these words do not represent specific denominations and churches, again, complete lack of due diligence. Just who do you think put these words in your mouth (and in jesus' mouth)?

'Nough said