Live & Let Live. Sign This.

[TaraJo]

Society is not simply the numbers of a poll. Society is both past and future. 50% of the population, still does not account for your dreams. When homosexuals are able to produce children, and contribute to society as "homosexuals", since they primarily identify themselves as such before everything else, maybe you'll gain the support of the lot of the population. But until then, society will not allow you into it, even if you are able to get married on paper. Your marriage will still not give you the respect and treatment that you expect from society.
You will still be different than the rest, and will be treated as such.

In my opinion, it'd be better to abolish marriage as a social and governmental institution, rather than to allow anything besides a man-woman union to get in.

Wait.......

Wut?hock:

*sigh*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSHJFyQo_...ure=g-hist

[kılıç_mehmet]

It's not really that, friend. The thing is, homosexuality is not normal. I'm not saying that homosexuals are not "normal", they can very well marry and reproduce as other people, and get married on that accord, have their own families. But those who build an identity on simply their carnal desires of flesh, and especially those which are considered and known to be abnormal....How do you expect them to be a part of a society?

I doubt anyone, homo- or heterosexual, that built their identity based purely on their sexuality would be considered normal.

Well, I am not a member of the heterosexual male's association, if there is such a thing at all, or ever attended a parade that flaunts heterosexuality as a point of pride, but homosexuals do this. Maybe it's due to the minority complex that all minorities share.

Wait.......

Wut?

*sigh*

IF you've got nothing better to say, friend, do not reply at all. I suggest you watch the words that you throw at people.

Not "normal"??? Then why are animals homosexual? I believe the number is 60-some different species humans have documented the animals engaging in homosexual activity.
And if I'm reading you correctly you are saying because being homosexual is a sexual identity, they should be denied rights pertaining to the arena from whence their minority status comes from? This makes no sense.
If you think being a black male doesn't include a sexual identity, you are wrong. Just look at all the black men who have been lynched over the years for looking at a white woman, for being accused of consensual relations with a white woman, for being accused of rape... That is a sexual identity as well. The same is true of black females historically, never heard of the the whole Venus Hottentot thing have you?

The fact that homosexuality is a naturally occuring phenomenon does not make it necessarily normal. If a person is born with four fingers, or say, without a left arm, what that person is experiencing, is attributed to a birth defect, an abnormality. Still, it occurs naturally, yes?
Not everything that is natural is good, or normal.
Besides, the analogies to black people is not really related to this. I have not given the homosexual identity to the homosexuals. They have given this identity to themselves.

[festive1]

The fact that homosexuality is a naturally occuring phenomenon does not make it necessarily normal. If a person is born with four fingers, or say, without a left arm, what that person is experiencing, is attributed to a birth defect, an abnormality. Still, it occurs naturally, yes?
Not everything that is natural is good, or normal.

Yes, you are correct. But being born with a deformity is normal for those who experience that deformity. It simply is their normal.

Besides, the analogies to black people is not really related to this. I have not given the homosexual identity to the homosexuals. They have given this identity to themselves.

Yes it is. Black people had these misguided sexual identities thrust upon them in much the same manner that homosexuals are often criticized for being hyper-sexual, having multiple partners, indiscriminate in their choosing of sexual partners, etc. They just aren't keeping quiet about it the way blacks did in the 1800 and early 20th century, when the subject of sex was more of a cultural taboo than it is in current society.

[TaraJo]

Wait.......

Wut?

*sigh*

IF you've got nothing better to say, friend, do not reply at all. I suggest you watch the words that you throw at people.

Sorry, buddy. I switch to 'mockery mode' when someone proves to me that intelligent discussion is past their simple little minds. You claimed society doesn't accept homosexual marriages, I showed you proof that over 50% of the people in our society are pretty regularly in support of same sex marriage. Address all those polls I provided with you, do it intelligently, and then I'll talk to you like you have some sense.

Until then.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OguAWl6sAWo&feature=plcp

[kılıç_mehmet]

Sorry, buddy. I switch to 'mockery mode' when someone proves to me that intelligent discussion is past their simple little minds. You claimed society doesn't accept homosexual marriages, I showed you proof that over 50% of the people in our society are pretty regularly in support of same sex marriage. Address all those polls I provided with you, do it intelligently, and then I'll talk to you like you have some sense.

Your mockery has missed it's mark by far, as it involves little intelligence in itself. Back in the good days, it was done by poetry, and I know not how you're skilled in that field. We can clash one day if you are up to it.
My mind does not have to be overtly complicated to see things the way they are. I see things the way they are. You too, do the same thing, as to call me simple minded while boasting your oh-so great intelligence, great scholar.
Adressing polls, as I said, is not really important, as it does not seem to have much of an impact on your standing in society, does it now?
From what I see, you don't seem anything else to my eyes than a crossdresser of some sorts, with people being able to recognize the male facial features. And this is how people will see, and treat you.
You can't expect anything else, whatever results polls provide.
Marriage isn't the only issue here. You want to be seen as "normal" within normal society. Marriage is simply another step to this dream, however I'm fairly certain that in no society on earth you can archive this.
Besides, how can one respond to polls anyways? They already show numbers, and you can only respond with numbers in turn. You already replied to yourself with your own polls, if half of the population supports your ideals, the other half doesn't. What does that mean? Nothing. It really means little.

[TaraJo]

Sorry, buddy. I switch to 'mockery mode' when someone proves to me that intelligent discussion is past their simple little minds. You claimed society doesn't accept homosexual marriages, I showed you proof that over 50% of the people in our society are pretty regularly in support of same sex marriage. Address all those polls I provided with you, do it intelligently, and then I'll talk to you like you have some sense.

Your mockery has missed it's mark by far, as it involves little intelligence in itself. Back in the good days, it was done by poetry, and I know not how you're skilled in that field. We can clash one day if you are up to it.
My mind does not have to be overtly complicated to see things the way they are. I see things the way they are. You too, do the same thing, as to call me simple minded while boasting your oh-so great intelligence, great scholar.
Adressing polls, as I said, is not really important, as it does not seem to have much of an impact on your standing in society, does it now?
From what I see, you don't seem anything else to my eyes than a crossdresser of some sorts, with people being able to recognize the male facial features. And this is how people will see, and treat you.
You can't expect anything else, whatever results polls provide.
Marriage isn't the only issue here. You want to be seen as "normal" within normal society. Marriage is simply another step to this dream, however I'm fairly certain that in no society on earth you can archive this.
Besides, how can one respond to polls anyways? They already show numbers, and you can only respond with numbers in turn. You already replied to yourself with your own polls, if half of the population supports your ideals, the other half doesn't. What does that mean? Nothing. It really means little.

Wow. The stupidity continues, with a good amount of personal attacks thrown in. Would you like to make rude comments about my mother next?

I'll address one specific part of what you said that's especially stupid, ok?

Adressing polls, as I said, is not really important, as it does not seem to have much of an impact on your standing in society, does it now?

Yes, they do matter. Do you even know what a society is?

*sigh*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

[kılıç_mehmet]

Oh, I'm sorry if I sounded a little rude. I was just stating the reality of things. Here where I live, you'd be a subject of ridicule, and would be able to walk the nights only, probably working as a prostitute. It'd be quite the same in wherever I've been to in my life, Europe included.
What I'm saying is, the outlook of society on the likes of you is known. It's not personal, at least not from my part to assert this. If you see this as an attack on yourself, know that I mean no offense to you.

Yes, they do matter. Do you even know what a society is?

First off, I'd rather have your opinion on how the matter, and how you view society.

[TaraJo]

Oh, I'm sorry if I sounded a little rude. I was just stating the reality of things. Here where I live, you'd be a subject of ridicule, and would be able to walk the nights only, probably working as a prostitute. It'd be quite the same in wherever I've been to in my life, Europe included.
What I'm saying is, the outlook of society on the likes of you is known. It's not personal, at least not from my part to assert this. If you see this as an attack on yourself, know that I mean no offense to you.

Yay. More personal attacks. Can I try? How's this: "Your mother sucks donkey dick."

Just a little tip, discussing my trans status? Yeah, really doesn't get to me. I'm very open. As for mocking me for being trans, uhm, news flash, dude: it doesn't get to me. If anything, I laugh at people who do it.

Yes, they do matter. Do you even know what a society is?

First off, I'd rather have your opinion on how the matter, and how you view society.

Let me start by bringing up your quotes that started this discussion, ok? Because while we can have a larger, longer discussion saying what a society is, I can show you examples of you telling us what a society is not.

Society is not simply the numbers of a poll.

No, but numbers in a poll are a good indicator of what a society thinks. Judging from the polls I showed, society does prefer same sex marriage.

Society is both past and future.

Not sure exactly what you mean with this one. Sure, our past has an impact on our society, but our past doesn't dominate it. The only way our past really influences society is by influencing the people alive and forming the society now.

50% of the population, still does not account for your dreams.

That's where the crazyometer went off the charts! Dude! This is NOT Inception land and nobody ever said people in dreams matter.

Anyway, I'd love to stay and troll the doofus, but I have to get ready for school.

[kılıç_mehmet]

Yay. More personal attacks. Can I try? How's this: "Your mother sucks donkey dick."

If you take it personal, you are very welcome to do so.

Just a little tip, discussing my trans status? Yeah, really doesn't get to me. I'm very open. As for mocking me for being trans, uhm, news flash, dude: it doesn't get to me.

It's not about you, friend. It's about everyone who are like you.
It doesn't matter whether it gets to you or not. Or whether it gets to the others. The thing is, that most of your kind are forced to walk the nights, and cannot participate into normal society.
Perhaps in Bangcock.

No, but numbers in a poll are a good indicator of what a society thinks. Judging from the polls I showed, society does prefer same sex marriage.

Society doesn't think. Society follows things that everybody agrees upon. 50 percent or even 60 or 70 percent is not something that you can show me to prove that society accepts homosexuals as their "own".
Because open homosexuals prefer not to do that.

Not sure exactly what you mean with this one. Sure, our past has an impact on our society, but our past doesn't dominate it. The only way our past really influences society is by influencing the people alive and forming the society now.

Indeed. And those people influence the future. Meaning, the past and future are inseperable.

That's where the crazyometer went off the charts! Dude! This is NOT Inception land and nobody ever said people in dreams matter.

Then why this long discussion about whether to allow gays to marry or not? I can't really think of anything else. I certainly believe that this whole gay marriage thing is just part of the homosexuals trying to feel better about themselves by feeling a bit more normal, like everyone else, while living out their abnormal selves.
Only time will tell what else will come after they are allowed to marry in the US.

[8BitAtheist]

Signed!!