Will Religion and Athiesm ever compromise?

[Mark 13:13]

"The Nazi's are a strange choice for your illustration since they were virulently anti-Christian."

Yeah, yeah,.....we've heard all that shit before.

We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.” -Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Berlin on 24 Oct. 1933

Hitler was one shitty atheist.

I must try and find the quote where Hitler bemoans the fact that the Germans are lumbered with Jesus as God and that Allah would have been infinately better for Hitlers plans but i gotta get to bed now.

[Something completely different]

I must try and find the quote where Hitler bemoans the fact that the Germans are lumbered with Jesus as God and that Allah would have been infinately better for Hitlers plans but i gotta get to bed now.

Here you go:

http://www.degruyter.com/view/db/hitq

The biggest online collection of Hitler speeches on the web.
And do us all a favor, post a source to from where you got the information!

To Hitler atheism was connected with communism - which is why he tried to destroy it.

page 630 in "Mein Kampf"

Gerade der völkisch Eingestellte hätte die heiligste Verpflichtung, jeder in seiner eigenen Konfession dafür zu sorgen, daß man nicht nur immer äußerlich von Gottes Willen redet, sondern auch tatsächlich Gottes Willen erfülle und Gottes Werk nicht schänden lasse. Denn Gottes Wille gab den Menschen einst ihre Gestalt, ihr Wesen und ihre Fähigkeiten. Wer sein Werk zerstört, sagt damit der Schöpfung des Herrn, dem göttlichen Wollen, den Kampf an.

Translation:

Especialy those with nationalistic sentiment have the holy commitment, each within their own confession, that one does not only speak to the outside in god`s will, but that one fulfills god`s will and let it not be violated. Because it was god`s will which gave mankind it`s shape, it`s being and capabilities. Who destroys his work, thereby declares war against the lord`s creation and his holy will

page 70:

So glaube ich heute im Sinne des allmächtigen Schöpfers zu handeln: Indem ich mich des Juden erwehre, kämpfe ich für das Werk des Herrn.

This is why I believe today that I act on the behalf of god`s will: By fighting the Jews, I fight for the work of god.

Now get the book and read it yourself!

And I would be especialy like to know where you got that "Islam would have been better part". Even if he did, that would not be atheism.
What I know for sure, is that Hitler oftern complained about the wars of confession which occured within Germany, like the 30 years war.
Which is not atheism.


I warn you! As a German I know my countries history just as well as I would expect a english man to know about his country!
I have called out lies about history before and will continue to do so!!!

[Aractus]

"The Nazi's are a strange choice for your illustration since they were virulently anti-Christian."

On the main question of is compromise possible, I think ultimately no, but that doesn't mean that we have to have open hostility towards one another.

There is a story from the Civil War about enemy soldiers trading tobacco for coffee one night before the battle, and maybe that could be contrasted with the Japanese in WWII or the Taliban in this war. I guess apart from the battle itself, the interchange ends up depending on the character of the individuals involved and the real world practical out-workings of their belief system.

new member!

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Yeah, yeah,.....we've heard all that shit before.

We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.” -Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Berlin on 24 Oct. 1933

Hitler was one shitty atheist.

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Min - you do know that anti-christian /= atheist don't you?

[Mark 13:13]

I must try and find the quote where Hitler bemoans the fact that the Germans are lumbered with Jesus as God and that Allah would have been infinately better for Hitlers plans but i gotta get to bed now.

Here you go:

http://www.degruyter.com/view/db/hitq

The biggest online collection of Hitler speeches on the web.
And do us all a favor, post a source to from where you got the information!

To Hitler atheism was connected with communism - which is why he tried to destroy it.

page 630 in "Mein Kampf"

Gerade der völkisch Eingestellte hätte die heiligste Verpflichtung, jeder in seiner eigenen Konfession dafür zu sorgen, daß man nicht nur immer äußerlich von Gottes Willen redet, sondern auch tatsächlich Gottes Willen erfülle und Gottes Werk nicht schänden lasse. Denn Gottes Wille gab den Menschen einst ihre Gestalt, ihr Wesen und ihre Fähigkeiten. Wer sein Werk zerstört, sagt damit der Schöpfung des Herrn, dem göttlichen Wollen, den Kampf an.

Translation:

Especialy those with nationalistic sentiment have the holy commitment, each within their own confession, that one does not only speak to the outside in god`s will, but that one fulfills god`s will and let it not be violated. Because it was god`s will which gave mankind it`s shape, it`s being and capabilities. Who destroys his work, thereby declares war against the lord`s creation and his holy will

page 70:

So glaube ich heute im Sinne des allmächtigen Schöpfers zu handeln: Indem ich mich des Juden erwehre, kämpfe ich für das Werk des Herrn.

This is why I believe today that I act on the behalf of god`s will: By fighting the Jews, I fight for the work of god.

Now get the book and read it yourself!

And I would be especialy like to know where you got that "Islam would have been better part". Even if he did, that would not be atheism.
What I know for sure, is that Hitler oftern complained about the wars of confession which occured within Germany, like the 30 years war.
Which is not atheism.


I warn you! As a German I know my countries history just as well as I would expect a english man to know about his country!
I have called out lies about history before and will continue to do so!!!

not quite what i said but this was the quote i was thinking of from the instant oracle that is Wiki "Albert Speer quotes Hitler stating, "You see, it's been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn't we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?" you will find it in the Private statements section http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_v...olf_Hitler

[Something completely different]

None of these conflicting reports on the individual suggest that he was atheist. They underline that he was religious.


And I would like to point something very importent out, something I find ignored quite alot.

One of my favorite quotes on national socialism is by the former head of the German roma comunity:

"It was neighter Hitler, Göbbels nore Göring who murdered my family by pushing them into ofens.
It was the local butcher, the carpenter and the local merchant.
They all were given black uniforms and declared to be the master race, then they went to murder us."

If there is one such thing as a importent question to ask or importent lesson to learn ouf of this darkest chapter of our nation, then it is the question of:

"What turns ordenary people into babaric murderers?"

To simply blame everything on Hitler and on whatever he might have thought or not thought is to give a pass on the countless people who commited these crimes.
I for one dont use Hitlers non atheism as an argument against religion. He might have been religious and he might have given the orders to murder 20 million Russians, 6 million jews, and 10 million other civilians.

But he was not the one who carried the order out.

And the question of "what motivated these people (some of which were members of my family) to carry out such crimes and to abandon all moral principles, is the question which bothers me more, than what Hitlers diet or views on Islam might have been.

[Mark 13:13]

None of these conflicting reports on the individual suggest that he was atheist. They underline that he was religious.


And I would like to point something very importent out, something I find ignored quite alot.

One of my favorite quotes on national socialism is by the former head of the German roma comunity:

"It was neighter Hitler, Göbbels nore Göring who murdered my family by pushing them into ofens.
It was the local butcher, the carpenter and the local merchant.
They all were given black uniforms and declared to be the master race, then they went to murder us."

If there is one such thing as a importent question to ask or importent lesson to learn ouf of this darkest chapter of our nation, then it is the question of:

"What turns ordenary people into babaric murderers?"

To simply blame everything on Hitler and on whatever he might have thought or not thought is to give a pass on the countless people who commited these crimes.
I for one dont use Hitlers non atheism as an argument against religion. He might have been religious and he might have given the orders to murder 20 million Russians, 6 million jews, and 10 million other civilians.

But he was not the one who carried the order out.

And the question of "what motivated these people (some of which were members of my family) to carry out such crimes and to abandon all moral principles, is the question which bothers me more, than what Hitlers diet or views on Islam might have been.

I agree, If we can't find the answer to what turns "nice folk" into complicit agents in genocide and find a solution then we risk more of the same but in the modern world the scale gets cranked up fast. It really is scary.

[Whateverist]

One of my favorite quotes on national socialism is by the former head of the German roma comunity:

"It was neighter Hitler, Göbbels nore Göring who murdered my family by pushing them into ofens.
It was the local butcher, the carpenter and the local merchant.
They all were given black uniforms and declared to be the master race, then they went to murder us."

If there is one such thing as a importent question to ask or importent lesson to learn ouf of this darkest chapter of our nation, then it is the question of:

"What turns ordinary people into barbaric murderers?"

To simply blame everything on Hitler and on whatever he might have thought or not thought is to give a pass on the countless people who committed these crimes.

I for one don't use Hitlers non atheism as an argument against religion.

I admire your insight very much.

[Minimalist]

Min - you do know that anti-christian /= atheist don't you?

Few atheists spend a lot of time in fucking churches, lad.

[Gilgamesh]

And clearly from the strength of some replies the care a great deal even if they can't admit it.

The strength of the replies isn't because atheists believe somewhere in the back of their mind that their life is on the line. The strength of the replies is because people who don't believe in fairytales don't want to be associated with people who do and they sure as fuck don't want to be governed by it. You'd never see religion seriously being discussed by atheist's again if every theist could just accept that there exists no religion with a shred of supporting evidence and thus, their belief has no rightful place, other than their own mind.

[Cyberman]

I'm not sure who said this first and I'm far too lazy to look it up, but I long for the day when atheism will have outlived its purpose; the day when, to channel Émile Zola, the last stone from the last church has fallen on the last priest.