Question about female worth in islam.

[Nineteen]

Nineteen, I was pretty detailed in what I was thought about the verses and I was very clear in where the contradiction lies or even if you don't want to call it a contradiction. It is because you said there is equality between muslims and nonmuslims and I simply showed you verse where they are treated differently for the same actions, that is inequality right there, by modern definitions. I'm not even discussing women's issue, I'm discussing one issue throughout. If you don't want to continue it's fine, the verses are pretty clear in what they're saying. It's obvious that the qur'an's idea of equality is not the modern interpretation of the word equality. I don't see how anyone will reach any other conclusion after reading our back and forth.

Please read my posts again and try to use your logic without prejudices . Yes I dont want to continue , because its unnecessary . I'm not here for my father beats your father , no my father beats your father . I explaind you with reasons but still you didnt understand even one thing that "kafir" does not mean "non-believer" or "un-believer" .

Bye ...

---

You appear to think of yourself as a moderate Muslim, however your attitude to the Quran doesn't seem to support that position.

Islam itself is also moderate , I dont spend an extra effort for being moderate . I just use my brain unlike many people .

[pineapplebunnybounce]

You asserted that definition without prove and even admitted that it is only your interpretation and there are muslims who don't agree with you and you wonder why I won't accept your definition.

Really?

Well this isn't going to go anywhere if you think you can just say things and make them come true.

[Foxaèr]

I just use my brain .

Clearly, you do not.

[Chas]

Nineteen, I was pretty detailed in what I was thought about the verses and I was very clear in where the contradiction lies or even if you don't want to call it a contradiction. It is because you said there is equality between muslims and nonmuslims and I simply showed you verse where they are treated differently for the same actions, that is inequality right there, by modern definitions. I'm not even discussing women's issue, I'm discussing one issue throughout. If you don't want to continue it's fine, the verses are pretty clear in what they're saying. It's obvious that the qur'an's idea of equality is not the modern interpretation of the word equality. I don't see how anyone will reach any other conclusion after reading our back and forth.

Please read my posts again and try to use your logic without prejudices . Yes I dont want to continue , because its unnecessary . I'm not here for my father beats your father , no my father beats your father . I explaind you with reasons but still you didnt understand even one thing that "kafir" does not mean "non-believer" or "un-believer" .

Bye ...

---

You appear to think of yourself as a moderate Muslim, however your attitude to the Quran doesn't seem to support that position.

Islam itself is also moderate , I dont spend an extra effort for being moderate . I just use my brain unlike many people .

I will believe that you are moderate when I hear you denounce muslim fundamentalists, Sharia law, and religious government.

And the Quran is not moderate. It is extremely contradictory.

[WesOlsen]

Homosexuals lying about Quran being open for interpretation. It's not and the homosexual who commented above is attempting to lie and deceive as is this homosexuals nature

I'm not a homosexual, for the record, i'm in a long-term heterosexual relationship. You have now dropped any pretense of being even remotely intelligent. You need help, a lot of help, and a WHOLE lot of schooling. You've exposed yourself as a purile bigot.

You do realise that you've just exposed the major weakness of the Islamic doctrine yourself, that is that people can interpret it in different ways, and that fundamentalists are able to force the most extreme elements to the forefront and suppress other elements. You also realise that the major strength of modern secular legal systems is that they are open to democratic processes and can be UPDATED and IMPROVED over time, in such a way that certain concepts can be expanded and explained in a clear and concise way. Any system that isn't open to change is extremely dangerous, and you've just basically exposed Islam for what it is: an unclear and highly volatile system that not even Muslims can agree on. Even if we pretend that as a women you aren't treated as filth, you've just said yourself that there are many Muslims who want to ban you from websites for being too liberal with your interpretations. Does that not set alarm bells ringing in your head? Would you not prefer a legal and moral code that is adaptable and open to different thoughts, that may be improved over time so that everyone can get the best out of it? Why would you want a sexist medieval system that hasn't changed in several hundred years? That's a BAD thing, not a good thing.

But that's simply not true, you CAN discern the main concepts and teachings through translations in to other language, and even if there was some sort of poetic mystery that was lost in translation (which is purely wishful thinking) what about all the ARABIC speakers (Christians, jews and ex-muslims) who find the same contradictions and faults in Islam? It is not infallible, it is full of contradictions just like any text that isn't allowed to be changed or updated.

Before you write these things , you should read about Arabic language features . It is unlike any other language and there is a rich narrative structure . Words have so much meanings and this meanings varies by where it is used or which attachments are used . Arabic is one of the world's difficult languages . For example I could not translate the world "evliaye" in English , I said ally , but still its not the same . But interpreters translate it as "friend" , this is false .

We dont kill our prophets and we dont change our holy book . 2x2 was 4 1500 years ago and today its still the same .

If you dont want me to ignore you , dont imply to me being atheist .

Every language has unique features in that sense, the English language is also considered one of the richest, with literally thousands of words that are no longer even in regular useage but can still be called upon for meaning. This sort of special pleading is irrelevant though when people who SPEAK arabic, and USE arabic, can do so and find contradictions and problems within it. There are prominent ex-muslims who have done just this, using arabic and NOT english (or any other language). Arabic existed before Islam and it exists afterwards. Also, if god wants the whole planet to become muslim, why does he issue his rules in ONE language that supposedly cannot be translated in to other languages? That makes things less accessible and proves once again that your dumb religion was made by humans, not by god. Why are you so gullible?

Also, I don't care whether you kill your prophets or not, the entire notion of someone special being sent from god is ridiculous when they do so whilst nobody else can witness this apparent revelation. The idea that god wants everyone to follow a plan but only reveals this plan to one person (whilst nobody else can see or hear) screams FRAUD. Yes, 2 x 2 = 4 a million years ago because maths is unchanging in that respect, what you're comparing it with is subjective human notions of justice, which change over time and CAN be improved. The age of the universe and the earth is also calculated using maths, however Islam teaches muslims that the first humans were made out of clay and that the earth is only a few thousand years old, which we now KNOW is completely false, because the earth and the universe are millions of years old. I ask you to consider things from non-muslim perspectives because we can demonstrate clearly that Islam makes incorrect claims and contains contradictions, which is why we use MANY sources to help form legal codes instead of only one. Islam was wrong 1500 years ago and it is even more wrong now.

[Nineteen]

I will believe that you are moderate when I hear you denounce muslim fundamentalists, Sharia law, and religious government.

And the Quran is not moderate. It is extremely contradictory.

I want religious government , but a secular religious government . People will live their life the way they want , does nt matter their back ground . As Allah says , there is no compulsion in religion/system .

Quran says many thing with one sentence . The mission of the people is to try to understand it correctly , not according to their interests .

[pineapplebunnybounce]

What on earth is a secular religious government?

[Foxaèr]

What on earth is a secular religious government?

A government that pretends to be secular while secretly being theocratic?

[Nineteen]

Every language has unique features in that sense, the English language is also considered one of the richest, with literally thousands of words that are no longer even in regular useage but can still be called upon for meaning. This sort of special pleading is irrelevant though when people who SPEAK arabic, and USE arabic, can do so and find contradictions and problems within it. There are prominent ex-muslims who have done just this, using arabic and NOT english (or any other language). Arabic existed before Islam and it exists afterwards. Also, if god wants the whole planet to become muslim, why does he issue his rules in ONE language that supposedly cannot be translated in to other languages? That makes things less accessible and proves once again that your dumb religion was made by humans, not by god. Why are you so gullible?

Also, I don't care whether you kill your prophets or not, the entire notion of someone special being sent from god is ridiculous when they do so whilst nobody else can witness this apparent revelation. The idea that god wants everyone to follow a plan but only reveals this plan to one person (whilst nobody else can see or hear) screams FRAUD. Yes, 2 x 2 = 4 a million years ago because maths is unchanging in that respect, what you're comparing it with is subjective human notions of justice, which change over time and CAN be improved. The age of the universe and the earth is also calculated using maths, however Islam teaches muslims that the first humans were made out of clay and that the earth is only a few thousand years old, which we now KNOW is completely false, because the earth and the universe are millions of years old. I ask you to consider things from non-muslim perspectives because we can demonstrate clearly that Islam makes incorrect claims and contains contradictions, which is why we use MANY sources to help form legal codes instead of only one. Islam was wrong 1500 years ago and it is even more wrong now.

Allah does not want whole planet to be muslim . Again this topic begins to shift in a different direction . Allah wants people to use their logic . If you were read Quran (probably not) you could see that . Why I am gullible , because I dont accept your logic ? Why are you always making personal attacks and using epithets . I think this is a general feature of atheists .

[Foxaèr]

Allah wants people to use their logic .

If theists were capable of being logical, there would be no theists.