Question about female worth in islam.

[Muslim Scholar]

Men are the ones that are ungrateful, well, the ones that wrote that. Wtf, at least be grateful to the sacrifices your parents made, and I'm sure in such societies mothers sacrifice way more than fathers do,

yes, they are that's why prophet Mohamed said, you should love and obey your mother 3 times then 1 for your father

and then you think that women should burn in hell because once in a while they get cranky with you? Seriously?

We don't say that they should
it is God who said that women are/will tend to sin more

[pineapplebunnybounce]

Yea you're missing the point, someone being annoying isn't a sin.

And I highly disagree that women are more likely to sin, men of course think so since the ones who wrote the qur'an were the religious types.

[Marvin]

Women can be worth the food you give them.
Allah blessed my brother with many goats and a daughter.
He shared with me his concerns for his unmarried twelve year old daughter and the problem of selling his milk. I introduced him to a cheese maker with an unmarried son. Now he has a stable market for his milk, assuming of course his daughter provides the cheese maker's son with many sons .

[Chas]

Women can be worth the food you give them.
Allah blessed my brother with many goats and a daughter.
He shared with me his concerns for his unmarried twelve year old daughter and the problem of selling his milk. I introduced him to a cheese maker with an unmarried son. Now he has a stable market for his milk, assuming of course his daughter provides the cheese maker's son with many sons .

Blessed are the cheese makers.

[WesOlsen]

I'm a former Muslim and was raised in a very conservative Salafi household, so let's must boil it down to two things:

1. Women gen 1/2 of what a man gets in inheritance.
2. The testimony of 2 women equal of that of one man.

But you forgot that men are obligated to pay all expenses for women so the 1/2 inheritance that they get is a bonus

This particular hadeeth was actually one of the first to make me become skeptic because of the very obvious injustice.

There is no injustice here, it is just a fact
It is like saying the crime rate in African American is higher than others; it is just a fact nothing more!

Well it's good news indeed that men are obliged to pay all of the women's expenses, like when they go out to buy shoes and makeup and pink furniture, they can at least rest easy knowing that you'll allocate them some spending money (equally presumably between one, two, three of four wives?). And if the shit does hit the fan, at least they can relax knowing that they'll receive their -50% BONUS. Boom, if that isn't fair then I don't know wha.............oh wait.

This just emphasises the tribal small-mindedness and lack of real foresight and philosophy prevalent at the time of these writings. The men (and they are always men) that wrote this guff are simply obsessed with the functionality of the woman. You talk about them as if they are property, all this 'allowing' and 'permitting' and 'beating when disobedient'. The proof really is in the sandy pudding, the quran gives women their 'place' before god, and indeed before men. They must modify their behaviour and dress sense for the benefit of men, because if a man wants to have sex or get a throbbing boner it's the woman's fault, not the man's.

This was all explained to me by my (male) muslim colleague, whilst my female muslim colleagues sat in uncomfortable silence knowing that they had no theological backing that would permit them to counter, despite being visibly uncomfortable with it all. The truth hurts I suppose.

[Muslim Scholar]

But you forgot that men are obligated to pay all expenses for women so the 1/2 inheritance that they get is a bonus
There is no injustice here, it is just a fact
It is like saying the crime rate in African American is higher than others; it is just a fact nothing more!

Well it's good news indeed that men are obliged to pay all of the women's expenses, like when they go out to buy shoes and makeup and pink furniture, they can at least rest easy knowing that you'll allocate them some spending money (equally presumably between one, two, three of four wives?). And if the shit does hit the fan, at least they can relax knowing that they'll receive their -50% BONUS. Boom, if that isn't fair then I don't know wha.............oh wait.

For you it is just a matter of your opinion that you cannot prove

The islamic system is the most common used system in all worlds; i.e. Hierarchical
do you know any system in management, politics, sports, education, etc. which is not Hierarchical? NO
So what is your backup? you are using circular reference here

[Dragonetti]

US Government is not hierarchical. The public figures are governing at the well of the citizens, and the citizens can remove said public representative through voting.

The current conditions have companies as citizens and given some leeway toward influencing the voting system. This is a flaw inherited to the interpretation of current laws.

[WesOlsen]

Well it's good news indeed that men are obliged to pay all of the women's expenses, like when they go out to buy shoes and makeup and pink furniture, they can at least rest easy knowing that you'll allocate them some spending money (equally presumably between one, two, three of four wives?). And if the shit does hit the fan, at least they can relax knowing that they'll receive their -50% BONUS. Boom, if that isn't fair then I don't know wha.............oh wait.

For you it is just a matter of your opinion that you cannot prove

The islamic system is the most common used system in all worlds; i.e. Hierarchical
do you know any system in management, politics, sports, education, etc. which is not Hierarchical? NO
So what is your backup? you are using circular reference here

Islam is heirarchical, yes, but heirarchy isn't Islam.

Heirarchy does exist in management, politics, sport, education etc, but increasingly in the western world the heirarchy order derives from acquired knowledge and expertise in the given field!

Managers tend to be the most experience in their business and have climbed the heirarchy, athletes have trained over a period of time and have improved their physical performance, a head teacher is often the most experienced and qualified to perform their duties. In almost all cases the person at the top of the heirarchy didn't start at the top (they usually start at the bottom and work towards the top). There are exceptions naturally, and just over a few decades ago this was not the case; people were still restricted in a professional and personal capacity because of involuntary genetic traits i.e gender and ethnicity. People (both within and outside of these grouped categories) said enough is enough, because this is the modern world and people should be given opportunity based on individual merit, not on things which they have no control over (such as skin colour or gender). To discriminate against someone because of the way they were born is morally reprehensible, disgusting.........flat out wrong.

As Dragonetti also mentioned, many of these heirarchies are not cemented or impervious to change. This is because in the west we embace pragmatism and pluralism, that is, a willingness to change and adapt to cater for everyone and everything. In Islam, the heirarchy status can NEVER be altered, you discriminate based on gender because your religion does not permit you to improve or modify your beliefs, because for some reason unknown to rational people, you think your belief system not only came from a god, but also that it can never be improved upon, even though it is in need of SERIOUS improvement.

Islam discriminates on gender, and is morally bankrupt. You are morally bankrupt.

[Muslim Scholar]

Heirarchy does exist in management, politics, sport, education etc, but increasingly in the western world the heirarchy order derives from acquired knowledge and expertise in the given field!

God who created human, gave men and women different merits

Even many non-Muslim scientists agree on that
Do men and women have different brains?



As an example, Dr Summers (Harvard President) told the conference about giving his daughter two trucks. She treated them like dolls, and named them mummy and daddy trucks, he said.

To discriminate against someone because of the way they were born is morally reprehensible, disgusting.........flat out wrong.

You based your assertions on false premises (men and women are equal)

On the other hand, God gave each one his fitted role, women are better in treating children specially at young age, they are more patient and emotional
Men are more practical and fitted to work outside and care about financial and political issues

[T.J.]

How do you explain people who don't fall into those set gender expectations? I have met several men who were emotional and more patient than others, and women who were impatient and could act as cold as ice. It usually has to do with personal upbringing. Plenty of women out there care about finances and politics. I also met plenty of both genders who don't care about politics. Or do they fall under the category of sinners?