Classic

[Rahul]

All is not right. There's still plenty of room for improvement. Being godless would be a major improvement for everybody, everywhere.

What good has been done in the name of your God to make up for four thousand years of corpses and ruined lives produced by his believers following a scripture which gave them more than enough reasons to justify killing, looting, raping and stealing land?

Very true.

I'd like to expand on this. I'll quote "No matter what there will always be evil people doing evil things and good people doing good things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."

That's a fact. Good people can and do, every day, justify doing evil things because of their religion.

You drop the religion excuse and you have to own up to yourself if you treat anyone evil. You have to admiit to yourself, "Yeah, I'm an evil fuck".

You can't go kill someone minding their own business and rationalize, "Well I did what god wanted me to do. That person wasn't obeying what god said so I am somehow justified in committing that horror. So I'm a good person." You can't vote against allowing gay couples equal rights for the benefits of marriage because, "Well the bible says that's wrong. They are living in sin. So I'm not denying equal rights, I'm upholding gods laws."

Less religion, less evil acts.

I'm a firm believer that humans, despite all the evil crap individuals and groups have done throughout our species' history, are basically good.

We're social animals. If we were basically evil, we wouldn't survive as a social species. We wouldn't even survive at all. If humans were loners socially like a lot of animals are we'd be outclassed and summarily wiped out in a few, short generations.

But we do. That's why lions and hyenas didn't kick our butts on the Serengeti Plains 200,000 years ago. One on one, back then, a human versus a lion? Human looses 99.9999% of the time. Somehow, though, we are the species overpopulating the planet while Lions are becoming an endangered species.

No more easy outs.

Religion is the number one easy out. Patriotism is number two.

Time to start taking responsibility for our own actions. And by that I mean on an individual basis without subverting your responsibility for your individual actions based on some higher authority you are supposedly serving.

I'm not taking any easy outs. Whenever I'm a prick, or do something that harms anyone, regardless of whether I agree with them, or their life decisions, that's MY FAULT. That's MY FAILING. That's me being a complete idiot and I need to be slapped. I'm not going to justify it saying, "I think their life choices are gross but so does the majority of my society so it's ok I treated them that way."

No, it's not ok. That's just me epically failing as a supposedly decent human.

[fr0d0]

You did go further. I'm sorry I lumped you in.

No that's OK. A direct apology very much deserved.

[Godscreated]

All is not right. There's still plenty of room for improvement. Being godless would be a major improvement for everybody, everywhere.

What good has been done in the name of your God to make up for four thousand years of corpses and ruined lives produced by his believers following a scripture which gave them more than enough reasons to justify killing, looting, raping and stealing land?

Very true.

I'd like to expand on this. I'll quote "No matter what there will always be evil people doing evil things and good people doing good things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."

That's a fact. Good people can and do, every day, justify doing evil things because of their religion.

You drop the religion excuse and you have to own up to yourself if you treat anyone evil. You have to admiit to yourself, "Yeah, I'm an evil fuck".

You can't go kill someone minding their own business and rationalize, "Well I did what god wanted me to do. That person wasn't obeying what god said so I am somehow justified in committing that horror. So I'm a good person." You can't vote against allowing gay couples equal rights for the benefits of marriage because, "Well the bible says that's wrong. They are living in sin. So I'm not denying equal rights, I'm upholding gods laws."

Less religion, less evil acts.

I'm a firm believer that humans, despite all the evil crap individuals and groups have done throughout our species' history, are basically good.

We're social animals. If we were basically evil, we wouldn't survive as a social species. We wouldn't even survive at all. If humans were loners socially like a lot of animals are we'd be outclassed and summarily wiped out in a few, short generations.

But we do. That's why lions and hyenas didn't kick our butts on the Serengeti Plains 200,000 years ago. One on one, back then, a human versus a lion? Human looses 99.9999% of the time. Somehow, though, we are the species overpopulating the planet while Lions are becoming an endangered species.

No more easy outs.

Religion is the number one easy out. Patriotism is number two.

Time to start taking responsibility for our own actions. And by that I mean on an individual basis without subverting your responsibility for your individual actions based on some higher authority you are supposedly serving.

I'm not taking any easy outs. Whenever I'm a prick, or do something that harms anyone, regardless of whether I agree with them, or their life decisions, that's MY FAULT. That's MY FAILING. That's me being a complete idiot and I need to be slapped. I'm not going to justify it saying, "I think their life choices are gross but so does the majority of my society so it's ok I treated them that way."

No, it's not ok. That's just me epically failing as a supposedly decent human.

Ok you two, let's look at America where God is being kicked out at every turn. This country is in crisis, it is falling apart and if you can't see this then get out of the closet and look, less of God means more evil, where God isn't evil will move in.

[Ryantology]

Ok you two, let's look at America where God is being kicked out at every turn. This country is in crisis, it is falling apart and if you can't see this then get out of the closet and look, less of God means more evil, where God isn't evil will move in.

I'm so sorry that America has become a place where white Anglo-Saxon Protestants aren't predominant and no longer have the legally-sanctioned ability to abuse, persecute, discriminate against, kill, or outright own those of a different gender, race, sexual orientation or religious belief than yours. I know that must be terrible for you.

I don't see America falling apart. Indeed, I see it struggling free of many of its darker attributes, one of them being the myriad horrors which have been justified by and carried out in the name of your religion (which, let's not forget, endorses all of the activities listed in the previous paragraph).

America isn't falling apart. Your awful religion is falling apart.

[Godscreated]

Ok you two, let's look at America where God is being kicked out at every turn. This country is in crisis, it is falling apart and if you can't see this then get out of the closet and look, less of God means more evil, where God isn't evil will move in.

I'm so sorry that America has become a place where white Anglo-Saxon Protestants aren't predominant and no longer have the legally-sanctioned ability to abuse, persecute, discriminate against, kill, or outright own those of a different gender, race, sexual orientation or religious belief than yours. I know that must be terrible for you.

I don't see America falling apart. Indeed, I see it struggling free of many of its darker attributes, one of them being the myriad horrors which have been justified by and carried out in the name of your religion (which, let's not forget, endorses all of the activities listed in the previous paragraph).

America isn't falling apart. Your awful religion is falling apart.

The future will reveal the truth, you can't stop it, so we will see, want we.

[Ryantology]

The future will reveal the truth, you can't stop it, so we will see, want we.

May we both live long enough so that one of us can rub it in the other's face.

[Rahul]

Ok you two, let's look at America where God is being kicked out at every turn. This country is in crisis, it is falling apart and if you can't see this then get out of the closet and look, less of God means more evil, where God isn't evil will move in.

Less of God means that women will have more rights over their own body and their reproduction.

Less of God means that homosexuals will no longer be treated like second class citizens and will enjoy all the rights and benefits us heterosexuals have.

You think these things are evil?

Let me break it down in a way you MIGHT be able to understand.

You think abortion is wrong, correct? Against God's will.

Let me ask you, why did God give us the ability to go against him?

Free will, correct? God thought it was REALLY, REALLY important that us humans have free will.

So how are you advancing his plan by taking away your fellow citizen's right and free will to have an abortion if they disagree with you?

Or to take away free will for someone to live in a same sex marriage without being discriminated against?

That's not supporting god's plan. That's subverting it. Follow his lead and give your fellow citizens the all important free will to decide for themselves that God was so insistent we have.

[John V]

Since you're whining about lack of response:

The theists in this thread are illustrating exactly the mindset which allows the RCC to have no remorse about covering up the actions of pedophile priests.

How so? Is it accurate to lump all theists together? All I've done is ask for accuracy rather than speculation. As I see it, if the assertion that priests commit child sexual abuse at a higher frequency than the general population, then OP's question as to why that is, is valid and is something the RCC should explore. If that assertion is incorrect, then there's no reason to explore that question. Is this unreasonable of me? How does this mindset of desiring facts rather than hysteria allow the RCC to have no remorse? I'm a father and have no desire to exonerate the RCC in this matter. I didn't initially reply because my first thought was "Fuck you for lumping me in with this," but that didn't seem productive.

ANY percentage of active pedophiles is unacceptable in an institution proclaiming to be the bastion of objective morality.

No, any percentage of active pedophiles is unacceptable in any institution where they'll have contact with children.

---

I'd like to expand on this. I'll quote "No matter what there will always be evil people doing evil things and good people doing good things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."

If we ever do sticky threads on oft-repeated but worthless arguments, this will be one of the first on the atheist side.

[Faith No More]

Yup... Just keep telling [yourselves] all is right with your Godless world.

No wonder the Catholic church is in crisis. Rather than address your own issues, you'd rather point fingers. Many people have tried to have a legitimate discussion here and given reasonable solutions to what should be done, but you'd rather play the "atheists are evil" card than address the problems of your institution.

Keep telling yourself you're the moral one.

[Rahul]

If we ever do sticky threads on oft-repeated but worthless arguments, this will be one of the first on the atheist side.

No, it's not worthless. And I'm shocked and depressed that you are yet another theist that refuses to see how true it is.

Those Muslim hijackers that flew into the World Trade Centers thought they were the epitome of good, decent, moral, god fearing people.

There are very few other ways someone could do such a monsterous act while still believing they were damn good people.

The Christian that kills an abortion doctor is commiting an evil act. But because of their religious convictions truly believe they are killing out of an act of obedience and love.

How fucked is that?

I bet you would jump at the chance to vote and take away the rights of women and homosexuals all in the name of being a good christian.

That's how you, sir, justify to yourself creating harm, discrimination, pain, and suffering all in the name of being a "damn good person".