If you believe in the God of the Bible, why try to prove it logically?

[Bad Writer]

Maybe you are!

maybe i am, maybe is always possible, but im not sure what you are referring to?

I'm referring to your possible genius status

[christcahinkilla]

well that's the nicest thing anyones said to me in a long time and thank you, but i think everyones a genius if they can only learn to think for themselves.

[Cyberman]

Hey you two, quit derailing the geek thread!

[Mystical]

Okay okay. I revise my statement then. The writers of the newer sequels, were genious. I totally thought Lucas wrote all that shit ahead of time

Frodo. You've reworded your own absolute. And earlier in this thread we've talked about love and selflessness and how I have the capability for both without religion. I'm a good person and I am not against god if he were real, I'm neutral and he's the one condemning the majority of humanity to Suffering eternally for not believing in him without proof of his existence. I'm not drawing absolutes, he is and so are you if you are saying that by not being for god I'm not for love meaning I'm for hate which is for death even though I live my life based on love.

No, we did not resolve any of these issues earlier, I apparently am asking a question you have no answer to.

[Cyberman]

Maybe that's the secret of Lucas' genius - managing to convince everyone he's a genius.

Anyway, I still enjoy the series so I'm not quite as nitpicky as I make out. It was just something that occurred to me while I was sitting upstairs in the bath one day. Then I thought "since when has my bath had an upstairs?" but that's another story.

[Drich]

I really don't want to argue Star Wars here but...

I do want to clear up how luke was the chosen one and not little orphan Annie.

So before a new hope All Jedi were basically modeled after fighting shaolin monks, their various disciplines and adhearance to a works based devotion that allowed then to access the light side of the force. In this 'religion' they are taught to suppress strong emotions and even relationships with strong emotional ties.

The sith on the other hand embrace strong emotion as access to the 'dark side of the force' is granted through chaneling raw emotion.

Anikin started the pendulum that eventually brought balance to the force, but he himself was not the embodiment of balance the prophesy spoke of. Before darth sidous took control of the senate, the force was a Jedi or light side heavy. One has to remember the force is neither good or bad light or dark it is a balance of both, and as such is a self leveling 'force.' Anikin was the catalyst of destruction of the light side/Jedi side of the force, that off set the balance that existed in the force pre revenge of the sith, and in the end took out the other extreme (the emperor) leaving one Jedi at the end of return of the Jedi. And later if you read the books you know Leah became a Jedi to a lessor degree(using her power as a diplomat), and her and solo's twins became Jedi. And luke goes on to open a temple on the moon of yavin 4. Thus making the force light side or Jedi heavy again... So Annie did not bring balance to anything.

Luke was the true 'chosen one' as he was the first person to successfully navigate both the light side and dark side of the force and not be consumed by either side. Luke mastered all of the disciplines of the light side all the while keeping his emotions intact. Something previously shunned by the old Jedi order, as every single other person who experienced strong emotion eventually succumb to the dark side. Luke felt fear, I. His trials with yoda, tremoundous suffering and guilt when he found out bader was his pop, anger at the emperor when he found out they had been tricked into attacking the second Death Star. He used his rage to beat down vader and took his hand as he had his taken, but rather than kill his father and take his place in the dark side he stopped regain his composure (something no other Jedi has ever come back from) and offered his life to give his father an oppertunity to save his own soul.

The fact that luke can tap and use both sides of the force is what makes him balanced in the force and ultimately the chosen one.

Killing one Sith Lord and leaving more Jedi that sith does not a chosen one make. Drawing power form both sides of the force and maintaining control is the balance the prophesy spoke of.

[Mystical]

Lol I read those books too I'm not arguing are you arguing? I'm havin fun. Even though my Real questions lie unanswered.

Again, nope. Anakin was the Chosen One. He destroyed the last Sith Palpatine and died himself, having turned back to the light side. A vessel of pure force was Anakin, not Luke.
Anakin was a midichlorian procreation of a virgin birth by the Force itself. Anakin was a Jedi then a Sith then returned back to the light side. Luke was just a good Jedi, but even then he was what 18 when he started learning the force? Of course his emotions would be unstable he wasn't trained from infancy either. He just rejected the dark side that is all.


"You were the Chosen One! It was said that you would destroy the Sith, not join them! Bring balance to the Force, not leave it in darkness!"―Obi-Wan Kenobi, to the fallen Anakin Skywalker

While the passion that came with love could lead to hatred and anger, as Anakin Skywalker demonstrated in becoming a Sith because of his love for Padmé Amidala, it could also lead to pity, mercy, self-sacrifice and compassion, emotions the Sith did not see as beneficial, as demonstrated by Darth Vader in sacrificing himself to save his son from the Emperor at the end of his life, thus bringing balance to the Force.

"Fully defeated by just anyone, the dark side cannot be, but only by the Chosen One. And who might be this Jedi? Know I do not, but not yet born is he or she. This much, sense I can. A vessel of pure Force the Chosen One will be, more powerful than any Jedi in history."―Yoda, from the Great Holocron

The idea of balance of the Force, a central tenet of the Jedi Order, referred to the ideal state in which the Force existed in nature, namely as the light side. According to Jedi dogma, the presence of the dark side corrupted and destroyed this natural balance,and the Jedi viewed it as their duty to restore it.
Traditional Jedi were keen to keep the Force "in balance". They attempted to achieve this by destroying the Sith and denying the dark side, essentially "keeping balance" by restoring the Force to its natural state, as they viewed the dark side as "corruption". This involved the purging of negative emotions such as aggression, anger, and hatred, since they could easily bring on acceptance of the dark side. In contrast, positive emotions such as compassion and courage nurtured the light side of the Force. The Jedi Code compared such feelings and provided insight into the ethical use of the Force.

"Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith so powerful and so wise, he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create life. He had such a knowledge of the dark side, he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying."―Palpatine

Darth Plagueis was a master of midi-chlorian manipulation. Obsessed with eternal life, he experimented with ways to cheat deathand create new life from the midi-chlorians. As Magister Hego Damask of the InterGalactic Banking Clan, he backed the rise and fall of certain star systems, businesses, and crime lords, earning him many enemies and putting the Galactic Republic into turmoil.One of Plagueis' greatest contributions to the history of the galaxy was training Darth Sidiousin the ways of the Sith and the dark side of the Force, whom he incited to take control of the galaxy and bring about a new age of the Sith. For decades, he had helped Sidious, known publicly as Palpatine from Naboo, rise to the position of Senator and played a hand in his apprentice's election as Supreme Chancellor of the Republic in 32 BBY. Together, they instigated the Yinchorri Uprising, the Invasion of Naboo, and the war that would destroy theJedi Order and the Republic in years to come. They were even unwittingly responsible for the procreation of Anakin Skywalker, the Chosen One.

[fr0d0]

Frodo. You've reworded your own absolute. And earlier in this thread we've talked about love and selflessness and how I have the capability for both without religion. I'm a good person and I am not against god if he were real, I'm neutral and he's the one condemning the majority of humanity to Suffering eternally for not believing in him without proof of his existence. I'm not drawing absolutes, he is and so are you if you are saying that by not being for god I'm not for love meaning I'm for hate which is for death even though I live my life based on love.

No, we did not resolve any of these issues earlier, I apparently am asking a question you have no answer to.

Where did I say if your not being for God you're not for love? I just said the opposite. That is how you're being absolutist. You have blinkers on because you're insisting that you're condemned despite what anyone says.

What question do I have no answer to? I have no answer to change your own belief that God condemns you? I can't change your mind. You have to do that. Like most of the atheists here, you see bad where there is none. Like Anakin, you twist the truth to suit your own purposes: because you can't provide good reason for your objection. You cling onto the bad idea you have because if you didn't, your pack of cards would come tumbling down. You have to free yourself from that negativity you harbour. Not accept God. But stop blaming him or the idea of him. You are the only one that matters to you, and you need to take some responsibility where you've been foolish.

And the big question... do you still think Anakin was right to prevent the death of Darth Sidius?

[Drich]

Again the force is not a light or dark thing it has two sides like a yin-yang. Balance requires equal parts. Not a one sided result. To destroy the sith means to leave the force light side heavy. Light side heavy is not balance, neither is dark side heavy. In order for the chosen one to bring balance to the force he could not leave the force in a state with more light side. Than dark or more dark side than light to be balanced means to be equal.

Again luke is the only force able person to balance the disciplines of a light side user with heavy or strong emotions.

I do not dispute what anikin did nor do I dispute that the whole Jedi order thought he was the chosen one. Where my dispute comes in is that at the end of rotj the force was still out of balance even after vader took his last breath. It wasn't balanced until luke took the mantel of the last force enabled person and began to train other force users to use it as he did that the force became balanced.

[fr0d0]

"This is where he (Anakin) makes the pact with the Devil. This is the very Faustian pact of trying to do something that he shouldn't be doing. "
―George Lucas in the Revenge of the Sith commentary - The Showdown at Coruscant

"After witnessing Sidious's incredible power Windu decided that he had no choice but to eliminate the Dark Lord once and for all Skywalker pleaded with him to spare Sidious stating that he must go before the Courts. Windu refused, believing that Sidious's influence would sway their decision in the Sith Lord's favor.

Skywalker further pressed that killing Sidious in cold blood was not the Jedi way. But Windu raised his blade to deliver the killing blow, and Skywalker, reacting in a moment of despair, cut off the unsuspecting Windu's sword hand. Sidious instantly blasted Windu with Force lightning and using the Force pushed him out of the window to his death on the streets below. [3]

Skywalker did not realize Palpatine was going to kill Windu [6] and fell to his knees in shock at his participation in the Jedi Master's murder. Sidious congratulated him, telling Skywalker that he was fulfilling his destiny and that he would help him find the secrets to saving Amidala's life.
The Dark Lord cautiously admitted that cheating death was a power only his Master had achieved, thus admitting he did not actually know the secret to stopping death. [3]

Inwardly, Skywalker was surprised and enraged by the deception.[1] He had realized that his new master had been manipulating him and the Clone Wars— the galaxy -wide conflict that had been raging for more than three years between the Separatists and the Galactic Republic —since the beginning.[7] He hesitated because his loyalty to the Jedi lingered, but he considered that he could not return to them after Windu's death and that

Palpatine was still his only chance to save Amidala. He resigned himself to his fate and knelt before Palpatine, swearing an oath to be his Sith apprentice. While hoping his new master and he could discover the secret of immortality together, Skywalker no longer saw Sidious as a friend worth defending. Now, the man was merely a necessary evil worth tolerating until the time was right to take his place."