Satan Disproves Christianity

[John V]

But not supported enough to believe in, in your book? Why is that? I mean, it's the same level of support as the bible.

Based on only one factor. Again, name another religion and we can discuss.

[Lemonvariable72]

Which is why I asked you to switch out the gnomes with literally any god you can imagine. The noun isn't at issue here,

It was, and it may still be. We don't know if the others involved are also conceding the gnome case.

and nor is the conviction or willingness to be harmed that a person exhibits over it; after all, people have been killed for plenty of religions by refusing to recant. It's not like yours has some unique condition that the others do not.

That means that all of those are better supported than gnomes.

Okay well then john, how can you rprove chirstianity is true and Zeus is false?

[Esquilax]

Based on only one factor. Again, name another religion and we can discuss.

But the whole point is to get you to examine your own beliefs, not everyone else's!

Aside from the holy books and claims of religious experience, what does christianity have, above and beyond any other religion that makes you believe it to the exclusion of another?

[FallentoReason]

I disagree. If you're admittedly making this up, that certainly matters. You guys look pretty silly claiming otherwise, so continue to do so if you like.

Oh my god.. just answer the question John!

[John V]

Okay well then john, how can you rprove chirstianity is true and Zeus is false?

I can't. Proof wasn't part of the original question/charge, and Christianity admittedly relies on some amount of faith.

However, I can note that we know much more about the originators of Christianity than we do of Zeus. Did Homer consider himself a theologian, or prophet, or a fiction writer. We really don't know, and we know less still about those who started those accounts before him. Since one criterion for judging claims is the intent of the originators of the claims, Christianity is better supported.

---

Oh my god.. just answer the question John!

OK. Christianity is better supported than your gnomes because it seems likely that you just made your testimony up to try to salvage an argument.

---

Aside from the holy books and claims of religious experience, what does christianity have, above and beyond any other religion that makes you believe it to the exclusion of another?

Aside from the holy books? Nice try, Sparky.

[Brian37]

Okay well then john, how can you rprove chirstianity is true and Zeus is false?

I can't. Proof wasn't part of the original question/charge, and Christianity admittedly relies on some amount of faith.

However, I can note that we know much more about the originators of Christianity than we do of Zeus. Did Homer consider himself a theologian, or prophet, or a fiction writer. We really don't know, and we know less still about those who started those accounts before him. Since one criterion for judging claims is the intent of the originators of the claims, Christianity is better supported.

---

Oh my god.. just answer the question John!

OK. Christianity is better supported than your gnomes because it seems likely that you just made your testimony up to try to salvage an argument.

---

Aside from the holy books and claims of religious experience, what does christianity have, above and beyond any other religion that makes you believe it to the exclusion of another?

Aside from the holy books? Nice try, Sparky.

Said the person with the imaginary sky daddy.

[Esquilax]

Aside from the holy books? Nice try, Sparky.

What, exactly, is so strange about excluding the bible from this? On its own, it's just a book: if you really want to keep it in play then I'll ask you why you don't also believe the koran or any other holy book purporting to be from the one true god, and we're back at square one.

There is something in your mind that allows you to believe the bible while discounting those other books, and I'm trying to get you to tell me what that is.

[Lemonvariable72]

Okay well then john, how can you rprove chirstianity is true and Zeus is false?

I can't. Proof wasn't part of the original question/charge, and Christianity admittedly relies on some amount of faith.

However, I can note that we know much more about the originators of Christianity than we do of Zeus. Did Homer consider himself a theologian, or prophet, or a fiction writer. We really don't know, and we know less still about those who started those accounts before him. Since one criterion for judging claims is the intent of the originators of the claims, Christianity is better supported.

Well If your god was real then why is is faith involved?
He tells us to believe, gives us no proof and then sends us to hell for disbeliefs and then says that he is love.

[John V]

What, exactly, is so strange about excluding the bible from this?

The discussion so far has been largely about testimony and factors indicating its reliability. You now try to exclude said testimony. Again - Nice try, Sparky!

On its own, it's just a book: if you really want to keep it in play then I'll ask you why you don't also believe the koran or any other holy book purporting to be from the one true god, and we're back at square one.

There is something in your mind that allows you to believe the bible while discounting those other books, and I'm trying to get you to tell me what that is.

You're not honestly trying to get me to compare books by excluding those books from the discussion.

Re: Islam, the earliest writings don't include miracles by Muhammed. The earliest Christian writings do show Jesus and the apostles to have miraculous abilities in support of their claims.

Further, as previously noted Paul suffered greatly for his testimony. Muhammed turned his ministry to a position of power and military conquest. Not that a god couldn't do such with his prophets, but it's a plus for Christianity as it removes the personal gain motivation, while that is still on the table for Islam..

---

Well If your god was real then why is is faith involved?
He tells us to believe, gives us no proof and then sends us to hell for disbeliefs and then says that he is love.

People go to hell for many sins, and mere belief in god's existence doesn't keep you out of hell, as noted in James.

---

Said the person with the imaginary sky daddy.

Do you, Minnie, and BWS wear matching uniforms yet?

[Esquilax]

The discussion so far has been largely about testimony and factors indicating its reliability. You now try to exclude said testimony. Again - Nice try, Sparky!

Actually, I'm trying to show you that whatever testimony your holy book has can't be the reason you believe in your religion, because other religions have holy books too, and you don't believe any of those. They're all making claims in the same format with the same level of evidence backing them; the thing I'm asking is why this one book is the one you've chosen, and that has nothing to do with what's actually in the book, because the events described in a book do not testify to the reality of those events.

This has been the whole point of the thought experiment about the gnomes; to get you to see that there are plenty of claims that you don't believe, despite having the same amount of evidence, and to ask yourself why it is that you'll believe one but not the other.

You're not honestly trying to get me to compare books by excluding those books from the discussion.

I'm not trying to get you to compare books at all.

Re: Islam, the earliest writings don't include miracles by Muhammed. The earliest Christian writings do show Jesus and the apostles to have miraculous abilities in support of their claims.

And Spiderman can do whatever a spider can. A thing being written in a book does not make it true.

Further, as previously noted Paul suffered greatly for his testimony.

And human sacrifices willingly died for their ancient gods, I'm sure. Again, someone being convinced that something is true enough to get themselves hurt over it doesn't make it so. People hallucinate themselves off the edge of buildings all the time.

Muhammed turned his ministry to a position of power and military conquest. Not that a god couldn't do such with his prophets, but it's a plus for Christianity as it removes the personal gain motivation, while that is still on the table for Islam..

Assuming you can trust everything that's written in either book...