woman rights in Islam

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

No different than me hanging a painting outdoors and then bitchin' when people stop to look at it. If it makes me uncomfortable for folks to look at my painting then I should not be hanging it outside for all to see.

Um,well yes it's a LOT different.A painting is an object.A woman is a person.

Perhaps it's the objectification of women which is at least part of the problem? Judgments of sexually provocative behaviour and appearance vary throughout the word and at different times..Eg not all societies consider breasts erotic. AND the US is one of the more puritanical of the developed countries.

As for being 'exhibitionists';that is a gross oversimplification and a bourgeois value judgment. (imo)

[Dotard]

If a woman exposes herself in a manner that is sexually provocative in her society then she has no right to bitch about getting 'letched' at.

[chatpilot]

Womens rights in Islam? What rights? Enough said, you can close the thread now. LOl

[leo-rcc]

So what? Nobody has the right not to be offended. If a woman chooses to walk down the street half naked that's her business, to look at her doing it is my business. Whether she gets offended or not is her problem, not mine. If she feels awkward about wearing a low cut dress, then she shouldn't be wearing a low cut dress.

Indeed, and what I choose to do is my business not yours

EvF

Show me where I said anything about what you should or shouldn't do.

[Edwardo Piet]

Show me where I said anything about what you should or shouldn't do.

I mentioned what I do, and then you and others started having arguments against it. All I am now saying is that for me personally that's the way it is, and that's all I ever said, so I have no idea what you're arguing about.

EvF

[leo-rcc]

Show me where I said anything about what you should or shouldn't do.

I mentioned what I do, and then you and others started having arguments against it.

No, we are arguing against the reasoning you give for doing so. There is a big difference. Look at my reply again:

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Even if it might be seen as perhaps rather odd, that women can dress like that but then at the same time get offended (some of them anyway) when they catch men looking at them, that doesn't stop it being a fact that they can still get offended by it.

So what? Nobody has the right not to be offended. If a woman chooses to walk down the street half naked that's her business, to look at her doing it is my business. Whether she gets offended or not is her problem, not mine. If she feels awkward about wearing a low cut dress, then she shouldn't be wearing a low cut dress.

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There is no reference to your specific action at all, but only a disagreement with your line of reasoning as to why women should not be looked at.

All I am now saying is that for me personally that's the way it is, and that's all I ever said, so I have no idea what you're arguing about.

I am not arguing about what you do, but you said that women when dressed provocatively can still be offended when looked at, my point is that that is irrelevant. Women can also get offended if you don' t look at them as they feel ignored just as easily.

[Edwardo Piet]

I'm not speaking for other people though, only for myself. It's not up to me what you or others do, and I certainly don't have a compelling argument that it's wrong in any way. I just personally don't feel they can "just as easily" be offended through not being looked at, and even if they haven't got a good reason to feel uncomfortable, I still don't look if I think they will feel uncomfortable. In other words, regardless of their lack of reasons to be offended or not, I put their discomfort above my own discomfort in priority of avoidance, by reverting from looking at them despite that I might want to.

To put simply: It's extremely borderline and I just personally choose not to, those who disagree can look if they wish, for I am not saying I have a compelling argument.

EvF

[fr0d0]

A woman choosing to dress provocatively might not think of all possible viewers. I'm sure a woman would dress differently to go to a nightclub and to teach kindergarten. Suppose then a woman finds herself in the wrong situation... then she'd be embarrassed if 'under' dressed.

I'm a bit like Evie. I am attracted but then get embarrassed that I do. Women are then embarrassed that I look away and are always prudish around me. I guess they're not 'dressing up' for me but for other hunks they expect to meet

Objectification of women is damaging to both sexes IMO.

And for my religion's view on women... in the creation story beings are formed in order of complexity. The last thing created was woman.

[AngelaRachnid]

If a woman exposes herself in a manner that is sexually provocative in her society then she has no right to bitch about getting 'letched' at.

So you have the right to say how a woman should dress?

Should women not have the right to dress the way they want?

A step on from your post is that if a woman exposes herself in a manner that is sexually provocative in her society then she is asking to be raped.

I suppose you will say she has no rights there neither?

A

[Edwardo Piet]

Objectification of women is damaging to both sexes IMO.

I couldn't agree more with that statement. I too think that that affects men badly as well as women (Not necessarily equally badly though...I would assume it's worse for women of course).

EvF