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RE: I was just in a debate with a christian
February 11, 2014 at 3:06 pm
(February 11, 2014 at 2:07 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote: But Christians are still going to be subject to sin ultimately, they do need to be forgiven by God for something otherwise the whole idea would be defeated and Jesus didn't die for any good reason and was wasting his time. Who came up with this plan, Ralph Kramden?
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
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RE: I was just in a debate with a christian
February 11, 2014 at 3:13 pm
(February 11, 2014 at 1:30 am)Minimalist Wrote: I bet he insists he's "pro-life," too!
And it totally isn't hypocritical if he does. After all, God has a monopoly on miscarriages and he would not be pleased to have someone horn in on his territory.
Comparing the Universal Oneness of All Life to Yo Mama since 2010.
![[Image: harmlesskitchen.png]](https://i.postimg.cc/yxR97P23/harmlesskitchen.png)
I was born with the gift of laughter and a sense the world is mad.
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RE: I was just in a debate with a christian
February 11, 2014 at 3:40 pm
(February 11, 2014 at 3:06 pm)Tonus Wrote: Who came up with this plan, Ralph Kramden?
It's not a plan just that humans are subject to sin (serious character flaws) and death which can/will result in a separation from God that being the eternal state of Hell. But God offers to give you grace through Christ which wipes your slate 100% clean which results in a decent form of immorality/existence after death. But you have the free choice to reject this and live the life of a complete asshole instead and this continues after physically die seeing as you are an immortal being in the spiritual image of God even if flawed. But what the system allows for importantly is freewill and there is a consequence to evil actions.
Come all ye faithful joyful and triumphant.
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RE: I was just in a debate with a christian
February 11, 2014 at 3:52 pm
(February 11, 2014 at 3:40 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote: But what the system allows for importantly is freewill and there is a consequence to evil actions. Errr... no, that's not what you said. You said:
Sword of Christ Wrote:But Christians are still going to be subject to sin ultimately, they do need to be forgiven by God for something otherwise the whole idea would be defeated and Jesus didn't die for any good reason and was wasting his time. In other words, if people do not sin then god wasted his time offering himself up as a sacrifice. God NEEDS for people to sin, otherwise he looks like a pathetic failure. In other words, the "consequence to evil actions" is that evil actions VALIDATE GOD'S PLAN.
It's so remarkably idiotic that it's almost brilliant.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
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RE: I was just in a debate with a christian
February 11, 2014 at 4:21 pm
(This post was last modified: February 11, 2014 at 4:22 pm by Sword of Christ.)
(February 11, 2014 at 3:52 pm)Tonus Wrote: In other words, if people do not sin then god wasted his time offering himself up as a sacrifice.
Did anyone take up Jesus offer to cast the first stone? Would you? You're 100% completely perfect in every way imaginable? But if we're talking about normal human beings then not sinning isn't going to be on the agenda.
Quote:God NEEDS for people to sin, otherwise he looks like a pathetic failure. In other words, the "consequence to evil actions" is that evil actions VALIDATE GOD'S PLAN.
It's not possible for humans to not sin if they aren't flawless.
Quote:It's so remarkably idiotic that it's almost brilliant.
What it means is you don't have to try desperately to be flawless and Holy in order to get in Gods favor, so it's easier this way. You can just be as you are right now. You can do that as an atheist as well I guess but your but if you seriously believe life is purposeless and ends at the grave this could lead to a kind of despair and/or spiritual degeneration. It may not happen but I think atheists are more vulnerable to it without a faith in God.
Come all ye faithful joyful and triumphant.
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RE: I was just in a debate with a christian
February 11, 2014 at 7:24 pm
(February 11, 2014 at 1:29 am)Boris Karloff Wrote: he ended the conversation with "I hope God allows your first child to be miscarried."
I think I won...
That is even dumber than Ray Comfort's Banana skit.
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RE: I was just in a debate with a christian
February 11, 2014 at 8:35 pm
(This post was last modified: February 11, 2014 at 8:36 pm by Rahul.)
(February 11, 2014 at 1:37 pm)Godschild Wrote: All hearsay, no proof that it happened, and actually a poor little story just so you can look good before those you worship.
Yeah! He's an atheist! Everyone knows you stinkin' atheists lie. Begone Lucifer! Get thee behind me!
Wait! Not like that!
Get in front! Get in front!
(February 11, 2014 at 1:37 pm)Godschild Wrote: You couldn't win a debate with one of my youth from church.
Yet you've lost so many debates on here. Maybe you should get some of those "youths" to sign up on the forums.
Everything I needed to know about life I learned on Dagobah.
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RE: I was just in a debate with a christian
February 12, 2014 at 12:22 am
(February 11, 2014 at 8:35 pm)Rahul Wrote: (February 11, 2014 at 1:37 pm)Godschild Wrote: You couldn't win a debate with one of my youth from church.
Yet you've lost so many debates on here. Maybe you should get some of those "youths" to sign up on the forums.
I've not ever conceded an argument, nor do I know that I've lost or won one.
I've given the truth as I see it and that's the important part. Min can't stand looking foolish, so he wiggles like a worm in fire.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: I was just in a debate with a christian
February 12, 2014 at 1:38 am
(February 11, 2014 at 1:29 am)Boris Karloff Wrote: When he couldn't answer my questions he ended the conversation with "I hope God allows your first child to be miscarried."
I think I won...
What were your questions?
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RE: I was just in a debate with a christian
February 12, 2014 at 5:40 am
(This post was last modified: February 12, 2014 at 5:42 am by Alex K.)
(February 11, 2014 at 1:37 pm)Godschild Wrote: You couldn't win a debate with one of my youth from church.
I highly doubt that your youth from church can do anything but to reproduce a few standard apologetic question-and-answer schticks full of loaded questions and ill-defined terminology, laced with a few lies about scientific knowledge. Plus some silly "gotcha" questions. If even people who are considered christian super debaters like WLC still rely on this mind-numbingly stupid Kalam argument, I don't expect your flock to do better.
Let them sign up here and prove me wrong.
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