Modern Feminism

[BrokenQuill92]

Is it just me or does modern feminism seem to hate everything feminine? I like pink! That's the patriarchy! I like ribbons! That's the patriarchy! I like other more feminine women! You're not radical enough! That's the patriarchy talking! Modern feminist go on about the patriarchy and the war on women, but look down their noses at women who are very feminine. If you ask me some women have some serious self-hate going on. I thought feminism was about choice.

[Aisha]

I have been reading a lot last weekend on how feminism works nowadays. I was never that interested in the subject to be honest.
But I wanted to read a bit more about how this atheist+ movement came to live. I am quite sure you all know the story so I won't bore you with that.
I have to say it was frustrating reading some things concerning it though.

Anyway, I also have the feeling like very little is accepted. I for once really like to make food for my boyfriend. Apparently that is not done.
In the past I also liked being asked out by a guy, I mean, its a compliment right? I can say no and then the story is over. But it seems like that is also not done nowadays.
It means you are being sexualised or something...

I dunno, maybe I just don't really get the point, or maybe I do not understand the horrible harsh conditions woman in the west live in nowadays.

What bothers me more is the way some woman and children and gay people have to live in, in certain parts of the world.
If I think about that, I wonder if it is really so bad that I like to make BF and sandwich. Or if a guy asks a girl out.

[My imaginary friend is GOD]

I dunno, I'm like, a 2nd wave feminist, where the 1st wave was in the 1920s and the second wave was in the 1960s. So I'm pretty old school. I don't really agree with reclaiming the word "slut" and you know, the idea that being sexual to get things you want from men is a "feminist" thing. I have a huge problem with TERFs (Trans-exclusionary radical feminists), ethnocentric feminists (like the ones that think it's okay to go naked to protest the oppression of women in the Middle East), or feminists that don't recognize their privilege as white women or middle class women.

For the record, I don't think that liking pink is a bad thing. It used to be considered "too intense for women" you know, for much longer than it has been considered a "feminine" color. In general, I don't have a problem with femininity, as long as it isn't the shallow variety. I don't have a problem with masculinity, either, as long as it isn't the "bro," "pickup artist," "men's rights activist asshole," or "meathead" variety.

I do have a problem with women who want to be submissive to men not just in the bedroom, but in everyday life. I would have the same problem with men who did the same thing, but I don't really see that. It's like, what the hell? Don't you respect yourself at all? Make your own decisions and don't be so fucking pathetic and co-dependent and sheeplike.

[NoraBrimstone]

I'm a "modern feminist" and I love pink. I have a pink version of anything that comes in pink.

The problem with pink is when it's pushed on little girls "because they're girls" and blue is pushed on boys "because they're boys". Why should we shove children into gender stereotypes to the point where we actually colour-code them?

If I have a son, he'll definitely wear pink sometimes because pink is a lovely colour. If I have a girl, she'll probably wear blue sometimes because blue can also be a nice colour. I didn't have pink things given to me all the time when I was a kid, I was left to be myself, and my love of pink has nothing to do with having a vagina. For some women, their favourite colour is pink because someone in their childhood told them that it should be.

There's nothing wrong with being feminine, it's the trying to make other people feminine that's the issue. Women who judge other women for not wearing make up, not owning like 10+ pairs of shoes and handbags, not owning a single dress to wear, not paying someone to do their hair and nails, etc. that's the problem. Or women who only do all that feminine stuff because Cosmo told them they're not worth shit if they're not all girly, and attractive to men. Meanwhile their feet hurt and they're broke because of it all.

In the patriarchy, women are meant to hang around looking as pretty as possible until a man claims her, then she's supposed to be some kind of personal slave/whore/babyvendingmachine for her husband. We see this system backfire on men who actually want to do some of the things that the patriarchy only wants women to do.
Are you a man who wants custody of your kid after a breakup? Nope. L That's "women's work"!
You want to take a year off work to bond with/look after your new baby? Of course not, only mothers get to do that. We wouldn't want to encourage any kind of" role reversal" now, would we? It might lead to equality! But here, have two weeks so you can help out a bit until mummy can walk again.
Then, when people notice this crap, somehow women are blamed. Excuse me, who makes these rules again?

[BrokenQuill92]

Amen ladies! I agree with everything spoken here! Well except having a pink version of everything Nora! Somethings that come in pink shouldn't!

[Bad Wolf]

I dunno, I'm like, a 2nd wave feminist, where the 1st wave was in the 1920s and the second wave was in the 1960s. So I'm pretty old school. I don't really agree with reclaiming the word "slut" and you know, the idea that being sexual to get things you want from men is a "feminist" thing. I have a huge problem with TERFs (Trans-exclusionary radical feminists), ethnocentric feminists (like the ones that think it's okay to go naked to protest the oppression of women in the Middle East), or feminists that don't recognize their privilege as white women or middle class women.

For the record, I don't think that liking pink is a bad thing. It used to be considered "too intense for women" you know, for much longer than it has been considered a "feminine" color. In general, I don't have a problem with femininity, as long as it isn't the shallow variety. I don't have a problem with masculinity, either, as long as it isn't the "bro," "pickup artist," "men's rights activist asshole," or "meathead" variety.

I do have a problem with women who want to be submissive to men not just in the bedroom, but in everyday life. I would have the same problem with men who did the same thing, but I don't really see that. It's like, what the hell? Don't you respect yourself at all? Make your own decisions and don't be so fucking pathetic and co-dependent and sheeplike.

You are the type of feminist I like, I wish there were more like you, or at least more like you in the public eye. We only hear about the crazy ones!

[Aisha]

I do have a problem with women who want to be submissive to men not just in the bedroom, but in everyday life. I would have the same problem with men who did the same thing, but I don't really see that. It's like, what the hell? Don't you respect yourself at all? Make your own decisions and don't be so fucking pathetic and co-dependent and sheeplike.

What do you mean with "submissive" exactly?
Also, why is it a problem to you if women choose to live their lives like that?

*edit and off topic*

Bad Wolf, I guess you are Doctor Who fan? :p

[My imaginary friend is GOD]

What do you mean with "submissive" exactly?
Also, why is it a problem to you if women choose to live their lives like that?

*edit and off topic*

Bad Wolf, I guess you are Doctor Who fan? :p

I think I answered both your questions in my original post.

[BrokenQuill92]

I don't think I could be submissive outside of a locked door, but I'm not sure I understand your problem with women or men who are, Mifig. As long as its someone's CHOICE to sub outside a bedroom I don't see a problem.

[My imaginary friend is GOD]

I'm talking about people who don't want to make any decisions for themselves and want someone else to run their lives and call themselves "submissive." That's not submission, that's sheepism.