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The dead in christ?
July 22, 2014 at 8:24 pm
Every christian I know, believes they go to heaven when they die. I know that Paul says he would rather be absent from the body and present with the lord, BUT that's just what he wanted. He never says that's how it is.
In Luke, the beggar did go straight to heaven.
Luke 16:22 it says "And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;"
But, according to these verses, the dead in christ are still in the graves, or the sea.
I Thess. 4:16 - For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Rev. 20:13 - And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
**Ashes to ashes, dust to dust - dead bodies decompose. What the hell is god rising? And exactly "what" in the grave will hear his voice?
As a christian, I desperately tried to reconcile all this in my mind, but it's impossible. The ridiculously obvious contradictions in these verses played a role in my deconversion. Feels good to get it out of my system.
![[Image: graphics-rain-426733.gif]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=www.picgifs.com%2Fgraphics%2Fr%2Frain%2Fgraphics-rain-426733.gif)
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RE: The dead in christ?
July 22, 2014 at 9:07 pm
This is one of the many reasons Christianity can be disproved - Biblical contradictions, and not merely some simple excusable contradictions, but a considerable number of severe contradictions and logical incoherences. Most reasonably smart and rational Christians, if shown this contradictions intensively and carefully, would at least become agnostics, but then again they'd rather just cover their ears and pretend to not be listening to our blasphemies, right?
It takes a simple internet search to find websites exposing serious compromising biblical contradictions that should be enough to at least make all Christians question if their faith is the true one.
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you
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RE: The dead in christ?
July 22, 2014 at 9:18 pm
And there is the biggest sin which you have committed.
You said "to question" and "belief" in the same sentence!
 hock:
No God, No fear.
Know God, Know fear.
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RE: The dead in christ?
July 22, 2014 at 9:46 pm
(This post was last modified: July 22, 2014 at 9:47 pm by Minimalist.)
Quote: The ridiculously obvious contradictions in these verses played a role in my deconversion.
I seriously doubt that most "believers" have ever put that much thought into any of their own bullshit. This
![[Image: The-Bible-is-like-a-software-license_o_36654.jpg]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=global3.memecdn.com%2FThe-Bible-is-like-a-software-license_o_36654.jpg)
sums them up.
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RE: The dead in christ?
July 23, 2014 at 5:45 pm
I personally take those verses metaphorically, when we are one with god, we are above the flesh, or carnal self. The carnal self dies and the spirit arises, we are made new. I don't believe that this is going to happen in the future, it is happening in someones life every day, taken literally it sounds as if its going to be in the future, this is where we get stuck and become dogmatic about it all.
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RE: The dead in christ?
July 23, 2014 at 7:43 pm
(July 23, 2014 at 5:45 pm)psychoslice Wrote: I personally take those verses metaphorically, when we are one with god, we are above the flesh, or carnal self. The carnal self dies and the spirit arises, we are made new. I don't believe that this is going to happen in the future, it is happening in someones life every day, taken literally it sounds as if its going to be in the future, this is where we get stuck and become dogmatic about it all.
The bible is written in such a chaotic way that everyone can decode and interpret it differently. Someone else might get another "metaphor" from those verses.
Why would an all-knowing being that had such an important salvation message to deliver to the world, compile such a jumbled mess of words and stories, that can easily be confused? He wouldn't, in my opinion.
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RE: The dead in christ?
July 23, 2014 at 10:00 pm
(July 23, 2014 at 7:43 pm)CindysRain Wrote: (July 23, 2014 at 5:45 pm)psychoslice Wrote: I personally take those verses metaphorically, when we are one with god, we are above the flesh, or carnal self. The carnal self dies and the spirit arises, we are made new. I don't believe that this is going to happen in the future, it is happening in someones life every day, taken literally it sounds as if its going to be in the future, this is where we get stuck and become dogmatic about it all.
The bible is written in such a chaotic way that everyone can decode and interpret it differently. Someone else might get another "metaphor" from those verses.
Why would an all-knowing being that had such an important salvation message to deliver to the world, compile such a jumbled mess of words and stories, that can easily be confused? He wouldn't, in my opinion.
In a spiritual sense, yes we do see the words differently, it depends on where you are, how I see the words helps me in my own life, so another must find the meaning to make sense in their own life. The scriptures were never meant to be followed like a robot, even though it seems that way when read through the earthly mind.
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RE: The dead in christ?
July 24, 2014 at 12:08 am
Quote:"Again, if God, like Jupiter in the comedy, should, on awaking from a lengthened slumber, desire to rescue the human race from evil, why did He send this Spirit of which you speak into one corner (of the earth)? He ought to have breathed it alike into many bodies, and have sent them out into all the world. Now the comic poet, to cause laughter in the theatre, wrote that Jupiter, after awakening, despatched Mercury to the Athenians and Lacedaemonians; but do not you think that you have made the Son of God more ridiculous in sending Him to the Jews?"...
--Celsus, late 2d century
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RE: The dead in christ?
July 24, 2014 at 1:22 am
I don't even believe in Jesus, or god, its all metaphorical to me.
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RE: The dead in christ?
July 24, 2014 at 2:40 pm
(July 24, 2014 at 12:08 am)Minimalist Wrote: Quote:"Again, if God, like Jupiter in the comedy, should, on awaking from a lengthened slumber, desire to rescue the human race from evil, why did He send this Spirit of which you speak into one corner (of the earth)? He ought to have breathed it alike into many bodies, and have sent them out into all the world. Now the comic poet, to cause laughter in the theatre, wrote that Jupiter, after awakening, despatched Mercury to the Athenians and Lacedaemonians; but do not you think that you have made the Son of God more ridiculous in sending Him to the Jews?"...
--Celsus, late 2d century
I love this! Thanks Mini 
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