Debunking atheists on christians not following the law of moses

[vorlon13]

What we see is cherry picking of scripture.

If your neighbor is doing something YOU don't like, the relevant OT prohibitions do apply because you say so. If there is something you want to do, and the OT forbids it, well then all of a sudden, no it's Jewish, or Christ didn't affirm that, or yada yada yada. And you get to do it after all.

We are on to that dodge.

Totally.

[Rokchan]

What we see is cherry picking of scripture.

If your neighbor is doing something YOU don't like, the relevant OT prohibitions do apply because you say so. If there is something you want to do, and the OT forbids it, well then all of a sudden, no it's Jewish, or Christ didn't affirm that, or yada yada yada. And you get to do it after all.

We are on to that dodge.

Totally.

Not really. (But cherry picking do exists. I mean to make sense out of this mess of philosophy is madness.) But i am darn sure i am right about this. But if you don't find Paul the Apostle legit, then by all means be my guest.

I am just giving objective verses that says it like it is. But you can always try to refute me. But so far, i say that following the law of moses is debunked by the verses in the new. (Except "The Ten Commandments")

In theological sense atleast to what to practice.

Edit: For people in doubt of the calendar thingy, here is Hitchens

[Ben Davis]

Tell that to "Paul the Apostle"

There's lots of verses that tell christians to not abide by the law of moses in the new testament by Paul, due to the new covenant.

I'm aware of some of the contradictions between Jesuit and Pauline doctrines (it was those differences which led to the first schisms and the need for the Council of Nicea). If you could pick some that illustrate your point, maybe we can have a fuller discussion?

Matthew 5:18
For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

Notice "Accomplished". When he is dead, boom you are saved by christ. This law of moses was some temporary thing to show off the pharisees. "Jesus wasn't huge fan of them" Sabbath prrr

"...all is accomplished" is generally regarded to refer to the end of days not to the fulfillment of Sacrificial Law that the messiah represents. Ergo all law must be kept, permanently.

Oh and slavery is condoned in the new testament.

Yep, that was part of my point. According to the bible, christians are still allowed to take slaves and are supposed to keep them according to the laws laid down in the OT. They don't ergo christians aren't living up to the standards required by their god. The OP is rebutted.

[vorlon13]

If you want to eat shrimp, you're going to eat shrimp. If you want to collect sticks on the sabbath, you're going to collect sticks on the sabbath.

BUT every speck of Leviticus applies to the homos living on your block.

We know all about selective scripture enforcement. YOU know better than god. It's just arrogance, belief takes a back seat if scripture puts a crimp in something you want to do, but you won't hesitate to wield it against your neighbors if you see them as sinners.

[Rokchan]

"...all is accomplished" is generally regarded to refer to the end of days not to the fulfillment of Sacrificial Law that the messiah represents. Ergo all law must be kept, permanently.

Lets see what Wikipedia says.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_5:18
""Until all things are accomplished" is also the subject of controversy. It is uncertain what all is referring to and how it will be accomplished. France lists three interpretations: until the end of the world, until all the requirements of the Law are met, until the arrival of the messiah. The three interpretations all imply very different understandings of how absolute Mosaic law is for Christians in the current era (see also antinomianism)"

I think Paul got the idea. So we can cherry pick our version from it of what Jesus ment. Man ain't philosophy great

[xpastor]

I don't understand why the OP is making this silly argument.

If you are an atheist, the Bible is not inspired, the Bible can and does contain contradictions.

Jesus thought the law of the OT was still totally in force.

Paul argued that the law of the OT was abrogated.

The fact that Paul invoked the name of Jesus as the basis of his argument in no way proves that Jesus would have agreed with him.

[Rokchan]

I don't understand why the OP is making this silly argument.

If you are an atheist, the Bible is not inspired, the Bible can and does contain contradictions.

Jesus thought the law of the OT was still totally in force.

Paul argued that the law of the OT was abrogated.

The fact that Paul invoked the name of Jesus as the basis of his argument in no way proves that Jesus would have agreed with him.

Well Paul was sent by Jesus according to the story of the apostles. So i guess if you want to be selective about it, then its that part that counts (Later verses beats older). Its all about whether you will buy it or not. Hence to that christians only practicing the new testament with the exception of ten commandments is correct.

[Minimalist]

"...all is accomplished" is generally regarded to refer to the end of days not to the fulfillment of Sacrificial Law that the messiah represents. Ergo all law must be kept, permanently.

Lets see what Wikipedia says.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_5:18
""Until all things are accomplished" is also the subject of controversy. It is uncertain what all is referring to and how it will be accomplished. France lists three interpretations: until the end of the world, until all the requirements of the Law are met, until the arrival of the messiah. The three interpretations all imply very different understandings of how absolute Mosaic law is for Christians in the current era (see also antinomianism)"

I think Paul got the idea. So we can cherry pick our version from it of what Jesus ment. Man ain't philosophy great

Wiki also gives us a footnote to that section and...what a surprise...it is from a book written by R. T. France. Who was R. T. France you may ask?

Wiki tells us that also:

Richard Thomas France (2 April 1938 – 10 February 2012) was a New Testament scholar and Anglican cleric.[1][2] He was Principal of Wycliffe Hall Oxford from 1989 to 1995. He also worked for the London School of Theology.

In other words, an apologist. A guy who tries to muddy the waters of very clear language for so he can make up excuses for why his god is such a two-bit fucking phony.

[Rokchan]

Lets see what Wikipedia says.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_5:18
""Until all things are accomplished" is also the subject of controversy. It is uncertain what all is referring to and how it will be accomplished. France lists three interpretations: until the end of the world, until all the requirements of the Law are met, until the arrival of the messiah. The three interpretations all imply very different understandings of how absolute Mosaic law is for Christians in the current era (see also antinomianism)"

I think Paul got the idea. So we can cherry pick our version from it of what Jesus ment. Man ain't philosophy great

Wiki also gives us a footnote to that section and...what a surprise...it is from a book written by R. T. France. Who was R. T. France you may ask?

Wiki tells us that also:

Richard Thomas France (2 April 1938 – 10 February 2012) was a New Testament scholar and Anglican cleric.[1][2] He was Principal of Wycliffe Hall Oxford from 1989 to 1995. He also worked for the London School of Theology.

In other words, an apologist. A guy who tries to muddy the waters of very clear language for so he can make up excuses for why his god is such a two-bit fucking phony.

Interesting. Who would you propose interpreting this verse, if you had to suggest. Richard Dawkins?

Just because he's a theist doesn't make the controversial statement less wrong, its a pretty valid statement (I wouldn't mind if there were more scripture analyzes by other experts on this field though, scholars etc. Which i suspect deals with theology). And Paul the Apostle "the follower of jesus" is still the one having the last laugh in the end. I laugh at you muhahahaha!

Just joking

So it was a nice try. But i think in the end, we all know who wins

[vorlon13]

. . .

Well Paul was sent by Jesus according to the story of the apostles. So i guess if you want to be selective about it, then its that part that counts (Later verses beats older). Its all about whether you will buy it or not. Hence to that christians only practicing the new testament with the exception of ten commandments is correct.

"guess" ?????????

Risking an eternity of having red hot Satan penis up your butt from a goddam 'guess' ??