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RE: The more you attend Church, the more likely you are so support Torture.
December 22, 2014 at 10:14 am
(December 21, 2014 at 11:04 pm)Drich Wrote: Torture no, enhanced interrogation techniques? Yes!
Exactly. In the same way that a rapist uses enhanced seduction techniques.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: The more you attend Church, the more likely you are so support Torture.
December 22, 2014 at 10:23 am
(December 22, 2014 at 10:14 am)Stimbo Wrote: (December 21, 2014 at 11:04 pm)Drich Wrote: Torture no, enhanced interrogation techniques? Yes!
Exactly. In the same way that a rapist uses enhanced seduction techniques.
And how pedophiles use enhanced friendship bonding.
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RE: The more you attend Church, the more likely you are so support Torture.
December 22, 2014 at 10:23 am
Knee-jerkers should consider this scenario:
Someone kidnaps your child. The kidnapper is caught, admits the crime, and says he has left the child tied up in the desert. The child will die if not found soon. The kidnapper will not say where the child is.
Suppose that torture would get the kidnapper to reveal where the child is. The child's life would be saved. The kidnapper would also get the lesser charge of kidnapper, rather than being charged with murder.
Would you support torture in this circumstance?
Frankly, I'd be fine with torture in this scenario. My position is independent of my religious belief. It's an act-utilitarianism position.
This is of course a very black-and-white scenario. The kidnapper has admitted guilt and an innocent's life is in imminent danger. One could support torture in this case, and yet be against a torture policy due to practical concerns. Similarly, I am not against capital punishment per se, but oppose it because the many death row cases which have been overturned on DNA evidence in recent years show that we're not able to administer it well from a practical viewpoint.
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RE: The more you attend Church, the more likely you are so support Torture.
December 22, 2014 at 10:24 am
GC and Drich are living proof that moral boundaries can be pushed with some good PR and word manipulation. (Actually, in Drich's case, I doubt any boundaries are being pushed at all.)
Goebbels would be proud!
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: The more you attend Church, the more likely you are so support Torture.
December 22, 2014 at 10:44 am
(December 22, 2014 at 10:23 am)alpha male Wrote: Knee-jerkers should consider this scenario:
Someone kidnaps your child. The kidnapper is caught, admits the crime, and says he has left the child tied up in the desert. The child will die if not found soon. The kidnapper will not say where the child is.
Suppose that torture would get the kidnapper to reveal where the child is. The child's life would be saved. The kidnapper would also get the lesser charge of kidnapper, rather than being charged with murder.
Would you support torture in this circumstance?
Frankly, I'd be fine with torture in this scenario. My position is independent of my religious belief. It's an act-utilitarianism position.
This is of course a very black-and-white scenario. The kidnapper has admitted guilt and an innocent's life is in imminent danger. One could support torture in this case, and yet be against a torture policy due to practical concerns. Similarly, I am not against capital punishment per se, but oppose it because the many death row cases which have been overturned on DNA evidence in recent years show that we're not able to administer it well from a practical viewpoint.
You can torture someone and you can torture someone to get information.
Torture and interrogation are pretty much the same thing. Both require that you torture someone physically and or mentally.
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RE: The more you attend Church, the more likely you are so support Torture.
December 22, 2014 at 10:46 am
(This post was last modified: December 22, 2014 at 10:47 am by robvalue.)
The sheer number of ways of saying that God isn't responsible for things he clearly is responsible for is staggering in itself.
Sounds horribly like a victim of abuse who has been so torn down that they blame themselves for the actions of the abuser.
If you think a couple of people eating an apple is justification for the eternal torment of countless people, then you fit perfectly into that role.
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RE: The more you attend Church, the more likely you are so support Torture.
December 22, 2014 at 10:50 am
(This post was last modified: December 22, 2014 at 11:05 am by dyresand.)
(December 22, 2014 at 10:46 am)robvalue Wrote: The sheer number of ways of saying that God isn't responsible for things he clearly is responsible for is staggering in itself.
Sounds horribly like a victim of abuse who has been so torn down that they blame themselves for the actions of the abuser.
If you think a couple of people eating an apple is justification for the eternal torment of countless people, then you fit perfectly into that role.
But people like Christians would use the persecution card to defend god of his wrong doing though. 
god does horrific things why defend him because of it. god needs to be shamed because of his inhumane
actions that was done in the bible. - though to me god doesn't exist 
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RE: The more you attend Church, the more likely you are so support Torture.
December 22, 2014 at 2:09 pm
Man, some people's true colors are really shining through in this thread.
Torture has never been a reliable way of getting information. Full stop.
"I was thirsty for everything, but blood wasn't my style" - Live, "Voodoo Lady"
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RE: The more you attend Church, the more likely you are so support Torture.
December 22, 2014 at 2:31 pm
(December 22, 2014 at 7:36 am)robvalue Wrote: Disobedience caused it? What, disobedience is a manifesting entity with it's own will, that can make things God doesn't want it to?
Or is that a way of saying God had "no choice" but to create a place of eternal torment? Either way, God sure has a lot of roadblocks to his omni powers.
You should stick with your second line and the rest of the idiots who can't understand this need to examine their ability to reason. Yes God does have limits, limits because of who He is, justice demanded a hell and God being a just God put into place the just punishment of hell.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: The more you attend Church, the more likely you are so support Torture.
December 22, 2014 at 2:33 pm
(December 22, 2014 at 2:31 pm)Godschild Wrote: You should stick with your second line and the rest of the idiots who can't understand this need to examine their ability to reason. Yes God does have limits, limits because of who He is, justice demanded a hell and God being a just God put into place the just punishment of hell.
GC
How about sticking with the point at hand instead of trying to derail it into yet another hell is real topic?
How about commenting on the poll and your personal feelings on it's validity?
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