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RE: A simple challenge for atheists
January 30, 2015 at 2:04 pm
@ Esquilax
If you think I am arguing that the bible is true because the bible says so, then I have been unclear. I am arguing that I believe in the resurrection of Christ because people witnessed it and is supported by historical context.
To illustrate the difference, consider Islam. They believe the instruction within the Quran is true because Mohammad says it is. I think it important to note that the Quran is an instruction book on how to live. A Christian does not follow instructions because the gospel writers wrote inspired how-to books, a Christian is a Christian if they believe in an actual event--Christ rising from the dead. The gospel authors wrote down facts as they understood them--more descriptive than prescriptive. The gospels do not claim to be any more than a narrative of actual events. The instruction part of the message is from Jesus' teachings. The gospel authors don't even explain or expound on individual teachings.
Again, I know I am not going to convince anyone of anything here. Further evidence of Jesus is not forthcoming so please resist the urge to demand them. I am happy to discuss specifics about the beliefs themselves and how they might relate to this and that.
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RE: A simple challenge for atheists
January 30, 2015 at 2:07 pm
The only "eyewitnesses" to the resurrection are in the Bible. Your argument is the most perfectly circular perversion of logic and reasoning I've seen on this site.
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RE: A simple challenge for atheists
January 30, 2015 at 2:14 pm
(January 30, 2015 at 2:04 pm)SteveII Wrote: @Esquilax
If you think I am arguing that the bible is true because the bible says so, then I have been unclear. I am arguing that I believe in the resurrection of Christ because people witnessed it and is supported by historical context.
But the only place one finds claims of that resurrection are in the bible, putting you squarely back into the "I believe the bible because the bible says it claims true things," category.
Quote:To illustrate the difference, consider Islam. They believe the instruction within the Quran is true because Mohammad says it is. I think it important to note that the Quran is an instruction book on how to live. A Christian does not follow instructions because the gospel writers wrote inspired how-to books, a Christian is a Christian if they believe in an actual event--Christ rising from the dead.
See, you say that, but I could introduce you to another christian here who believes that one is only a christian if they live a life in accordance with the bible's instructions; essentially, the exact opposite of what you claim here. How do we find out which of you is right?
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RE: A simple challenge for atheists
January 30, 2015 at 2:18 pm
(January 30, 2015 at 2:04 pm)SteveII Wrote: Further evidence of Jesus is not forthcoming so please resist the urge to demand them.
The master of understatement....
Jesus ain't coming back
So, don't waste your time
Not yours and not mine
You're only dreaming.
-The Pink Mountaintops
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RE: A simple challenge for atheists
January 30, 2015 at 2:20 pm
(January 30, 2015 at 2:07 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: The only "eyewitnesses" to the resurrection are in the Bible. Your argument is the most perfectly circular perversion of logic and reasoning I've seen on this site.
Perhaps you are struggling with the term "Bible". There are five written documents (gospels+acts). I chose to believe these accounts because they are describing actual events--not because they claim any special consideration (like inspiration) -- because they don't.
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RE: A simple challenge for atheists
January 30, 2015 at 2:22 pm
You can't choose to believe anything. Belief is a state of mind.
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RE: A simple challenge for atheists
January 30, 2015 at 2:22 pm
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
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RE: A simple challenge for atheists
January 30, 2015 at 2:23 pm
(January 30, 2015 at 2:20 pm)SteveII Wrote: I chose to believe these accounts because they are describing actual events-
What you are doing is ensuring the continuation of your delusion by having faith in that which has no evidence to support it.
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RE: A simple challenge for atheists
January 30, 2015 at 2:24 pm
(This post was last modified: January 30, 2015 at 2:25 pm by Alex K.)
(January 30, 2015 at 2:20 pm)SteveII Wrote: (January 30, 2015 at 2:07 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: The only "eyewitnesses" to the resurrection are in the Bible. Your argument is the most perfectly circular perversion of logic and reasoning I've seen on this site.
Perhaps you are struggling with the term "Bible". There are five written documents (gospels+acts). I chose to believe these accounts because they are describing actual events--not because they claim any special consideration (like inspiration) -- because they don't.
"The last republican US president was G.W. Bush. I am 50ft tall and I can fly."
You believe that now, I assume
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
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RE: A simple challenge for atheists
January 30, 2015 at 2:24 pm
(January 30, 2015 at 2:20 pm)SteveII Wrote: Perhaps you are struggling with the term "Bible". There are five written documents (gospels+acts). I chose to believe these accounts because they are describing actual events--not because they claim any special consideration (like inspiration) -- because they don't.
"Describing actual events" --- do you not even hear yourself?
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great
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