Posts: 11260
Threads: 61
Joined: January 5, 2013
Reputation:
123
RE: A simple challenge for atheists
January 30, 2015 at 2:24 pm
(January 30, 2015 at 2:20 pm)SteveII Wrote: Perhaps you are struggling with the term "Bible". There are five written documents (gospels+acts). I chose to believe these accounts because they are describing actual events--not because they claim any special consideration (like inspiration) -- because they don't.
There are hundreds of Spiderman comics; can I imbue the claim that Spiderman is real with more significance by choosing to count them all individually, rather than as the single narrative set they actually are? There are hundreds of them! That makes the probability of Spiderman existing far higher than your god, and his piffling five accounts!
Besides, "I chose to believe these accounts because they are describing actual events"? There you go again, "I believe the bible because the bible is true." You're just assuming they present real events to you because they claim to be doing so, but you have no evidence that that's true... beyond other accounts in the same narrative... oh. 
Look at how curved that circle is!
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!
Posts: 3817
Threads: 5
Joined: November 19, 2012
Reputation:
54
RE: A simple challenge for atheists
January 30, 2015 at 2:25 pm
(This post was last modified: January 30, 2015 at 2:26 pm by Chas.)
(January 30, 2015 at 2:20 pm)SteveII Wrote: (January 30, 2015 at 2:07 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: The only "eyewitnesses" to the resurrection are in the Bible. Your argument is the most perfectly circular perversion of logic and reasoning I've seen on this site.
Perhaps you are struggling with the term "Bible". There are five written documents (gospels+acts). I chose to believe these accounts because they are describing actual events--not because they claim any special consideration (like inspiration) -- because they don't.
There is no evidence that these are actual events. Your Gospels and Acts are the claim, not the evidence.
Evidence for those claims must be external to the Gospels and Acts.
Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
Posts: 3620
Threads: 22
Joined: January 19, 2015
Reputation:
30
RE: A simple challenge for atheists
January 30, 2015 at 2:26 pm
I hate to bring it up for the third goddamn time, but...
(January 30, 2015 at 11:07 am)SteveII Wrote: Your reasoning escapes me but I will continue.
I think our discussion should've stopped at that point. Seriously. How do you reason with someone who will keep talking despite all his arguments being refuted?
Posts: 29107
Threads: 218
Joined: August 9, 2014
Reputation:
155
RE: A simple challenge for atheists
January 30, 2015 at 2:27 pm
Feel free to join in the satan/bible thread steve, then we can swap controllers 
Posts: 3630
Threads: 20
Joined: July 20, 2011
Reputation:
47
RE: A simple challenge for atheists
January 30, 2015 at 2:27 pm
(January 30, 2015 at 2:20 pm)SteveII Wrote: I chose to believe these accounts because they are describing actual events--not because they claim any special consideration (like inspiration) -- because they don't.
Says the Mormon, the Muslim, the Zoroastrian, etc....
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
Posts: 2962
Threads: 44
Joined: March 22, 2013
Reputation:
39
RE: A simple challenge for atheists
January 30, 2015 at 2:27 pm
(January 30, 2015 at 2:26 pm)Xeno Wrote: Seriously. How do you reason with someone who will keep talking despite all his arguments being refuted?
For target practice.
Posts: 3045
Threads: 14
Joined: July 7, 2014
Reputation:
14
RE: A simple challenge for atheists
January 30, 2015 at 2:28 pm
(January 30, 2015 at 2:14 pm)Esquilax Wrote: See, you say that, but I could introduce you to another christian here who believes that one is only a christian if they live a life in accordance with the bible's instructions; essentially, the exact opposite of what you claim here. How do we find out which of you is right?
That would be incorrect. Belief and acceptance of grace is the only requirement to be saved. Now practically speaking, if you believe that Jesus was who he claimed to be and accepted the grace offered, then you would want to strive to follow his other precepts.
Posts: 29107
Threads: 218
Joined: August 9, 2014
Reputation:
155
RE: A simple challenge for atheists
January 30, 2015 at 2:29 pm
(This post was last modified: January 30, 2015 at 2:32 pm by robvalue.)
Someone forgot to tell him the first account of the ressurection is considered a forgery. No, I didn't forget, I mentioned it earlier but apparently it's not important. The whole thing is hearsay anyway, so who cares if you fuck with it later?
Taking hearsay as evidence is the kind of thing you expect in a totalitarian state where you can be executed because some guy heard that you said something bad against the king.
Posts: 3630
Threads: 20
Joined: July 20, 2011
Reputation:
47
RE: A simple challenge for atheists
January 30, 2015 at 2:30 pm
(January 30, 2015 at 2:28 pm)SteveII Wrote: That would be incorrect. Belief and acceptance of grace is the only requirement to be saved. Now practically speaking, if you believe that Jesus was who he claimed to be and accepted the grace offered, then you would want to strive to follow his other precepts.
But since the evidence for any of that is vastly insufficient for the claims being made, there is no rationally justifiable reason to do so.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
Posts: 18510
Threads: 129
Joined: January 19, 2014
Reputation:
91
RE: A simple challenge for atheists
January 30, 2015 at 2:31 pm
(This post was last modified: January 30, 2015 at 2:34 pm by Alex K.)
(January 30, 2015 at 2:28 pm)SteveII Wrote: (January 30, 2015 at 2:14 pm)Esquilax Wrote: See, you say that, but I could introduce you to another christian here who believes that one is only a christian if they live a life in accordance with the bible's instructions; essentially, the exact opposite of what you claim here. How do we find out which of you is right?
That would be incorrect. Belief and acceptance of grace is the only requirement to be saved.
You 100% sure? Aren't you still afraid that you forgot some technicality and are gonna fry in Hell anyways? I mean, there were and are so many different ideas floating around about what is necessary for salvation, by people just as convinced as you. It would be an amazing coincidencr if yours were right. If I were a believer I'd be constantly scared witless that I got it wrong...
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
|
