Question for Atheists

[robvalue]

Sorry, you're not allowed to post links until you reach 30 days and 30 posts.

[Faith No More]

I appreciate the insight. I'm still researching but it seems to me that suicide is typically a result of severe depression, which can result from a lot of different things. For a theist it's easy to point out God, Family, Country because I grew up in that environment. If those things can be "taken away" in an instant, most Christians would go into a severe depression which could absolutely result in suicide. I don't have much doubt in that. If a person wakes up one morning to find their country gone, family dead, and learns that God most certainly does not exist I can see a person taking the easy way out pretty quickly, can't you?

That's not quite true. People diagnosed as Bipolar are much more likely than those diagnosed with Major(Unipolar) Depression to commit suicide, and the majority of those Bipolar suicides are done when the person is in a manic state. It seems that a lack of stability is an even greater factor in driving a person to suicide than pure depression.

If you really are interested in the mindset behind suicide, you can PM me, because I have had some fairly in depth dealings with the subject that I may be able to help you with.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Tony, if you are truly interested in hearing what people here value, I suggest just hanging around for a bit, reading some threads, and interacting with others. We get a lot of people here that feign curiosity to provide a stepping stone to proselytize to the heathen atheists, so your approach is going to garner some hostile responses, no matter your intention.

I freely confess opening this thread fearing that the question would be something like "if morals are relative, what's wrong with just killing people?", or some rot like that.

[abaris]

Well it would be a mistake to say "All Christians," but as a generalization I think most Christians will quickly identify with that.

I hope for your sake, your book deals in facts rather than unfounded assumptions such as this one. Once again, you obviously talk about a certain and rather narrow brand of American christians. Things look pretty different in Europe, just to give you one example.

[tonyc4444]

You can't "learn" God is gone because it's generally an unfalsifiable claim.

In the real world, not necessarily for fiction.

Saying theists care more about their family or their country than atheists is not something I'd agree with.

I didn't say that.

And again, suicide is not something you can make general statements about. Religion can in fact provide an extra reason to kill yourself, this has happened.

It's a theme in a novel, there's not really any sort of general statement but to say IN GENERAL if a person loses what gives them happiness and emotional security they are at an increased risk of severe deppression and therefore at an increased risk for suicide.

This isn't so much important as I'm trying to get a GENERAL idea of what Atheists might find happiness and emotional security BEYOND family and country.

[Crossless2.0]

Like let's say for instance we found out that Einstein was a fraud who paid people to back his research, or that Stephen Hawking was a hack. Or better yet, picture yourself living back hundreds of years ago when the debate over whether or not the Earth was flat was raging and all those normal people woke up one day to find out they had been duped for a long time and the Earth was actually round. Would any of this be detrimental to you? Would it really have any effect on your daily life? Do you think it would cause any amount of depression, even if just a small amount?

Though this was directed at another member, I'd say that evidence that Einstein was a fraud or that Hawking is a hack and their findings completely wrong would be something I would roll with. The truth is the truth, and I'm not backing a particular horse. My question would be: what hypothesis then best explains the evidence we have if these theories are not correct? I certainly wouldn't be depressed. It would be fascinating.

Would you be depressed, even if just a small amount, if it turned out that archaeologists can't verify the Exodus or the events in Joshua? What if it turned out that there was good reason to believe that much of the OT and the way Judea and Israel are portrayed was self-serving propaganda meant to prop up Josiah's regime? What if the Gospels serve propaganda purposes and are meant, in part, to insulate the fledgling (and increasingly Gentile) movement from too-close an identification with its Jewish roots by vilifying the Jews in order to absolve the Romans of guilt for Jesus' death?

The point is that those who are concerned with learning about reality will adjust their views accordingly if their worldview is shown to be inadequate. Many theists, especially of the Abrahamic variety, seem to have a problem with this.

[Joods]

Oof..so much wrong with that. Not least of which is that its rather presumptuous to imply that Christians in general put "country" in their pantheon of top 3 most important things to them.

No, I'm fairly confident in that particular assertion.


No there was no malice of intent on my part, I'm genuinely asking so I don't misrepresent an atheists position on something within the book. I'm not an Atheist so I'd rather not just assume something about an entire group of people and would rather ask the question. There's truly no malice intended here, just serious research for myself.

*words bolded by me to show relevance

Sooo... I see a contradiction here. You "assume" by, as you say, asserting that xians put "country" in their top 3 but at the same time, you don't want to assume something about an entire group of people?

So are xians not a "group" of people?

If you are confident they put "country" in their top three, would you mind providing the source that backs up your reasoning?

As for my three, Family always comes first. Rations second. Freedom third.

[robvalue]

As I said, you can't generalize atheists at all. This is a flawed project I'm afraid.

I think you're grossly overgeneralising theists too.

What is important to people who don't believe in Bigfoot, in general?

[tonyc4444]

Well it would be a mistake to say "All Christians," but as a generalization I think most Christians will quickly identify with that.

I hope for your sake, your book deals in facts rather than unfounded assumptions such as this one. Once again, you obviously talk about a certain and rather narrow brand of American christians. Things look pretty different in Europe, just to give you one example.

I take your point but the target audience would be Americans so how Europeans view that isn't so much important. If the United States of America disappeared tomorrow MOST American Christians would be heart broken and severely depressed by that.

[watchamadoodle]

Here is a webpage that has a long list of suicide causes. I don't see God on the list. Of course, I know from personal experience that losing faith in God can make a person feel foolish, angry, depressed, etc. So indirectly, I suppose faith in God is also a cause. The very last item is "loss of hope", and I suppose some people might feel a loss of hope when they lose the false security of religious beliefs.

The death of a loved one.
A divorce, separation, or breakup of a relationship.
Losing custody of children, or feeling that a child custody decision is not fair.
A serious loss, such as a loss of a job, house, or money.
A serious illness.
A terminal illness.
A serious accident.
Chronic physical pain.
Intense emotional pain.
Loss of hope.
[... (many more but no mention of religion or God)]

http://www.suicide.org/suicide-causes.html