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RE: Do Humans Have Compulsary Will? Which best describes your take on 'will'?
June 7, 2015 at 8:23 pm
(This post was last modified: June 7, 2015 at 8:28 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I think that this is a grossly naive and hopeful expectation both of the computer, and people. 
The notion that people would abandon or be disappointed by their ideas of the uniqueness of consciousness or mind, that AI would not be a seperate category, ignores that people already make those arguments. That even if we achieved AI (and assuming this was a way to do it) they would still just be machines in motion..which is different, somehow, than our own minds or consciousness. Similarly, the idea that a computer would demonstrate mind with such an algorithm is strange on it;s face. Presuming that ants do it this way, we do not see the colony as having mind, and so if the computer did it that way..we would think what? Presuming that the algorithm we use -is human- than the machine is just "pretending". On and on it goes.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Do Humans Have Compulsary Will? Which best describes your take on 'will'?
June 7, 2015 at 8:27 pm
(This post was last modified: June 7, 2015 at 8:28 pm by IATIA.)
I do not think it is naive to think that we could develop true A.I., perhaps even within a generation. Certainly not grossly naive as I do not drink Evian.
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RE: Do Humans Have Compulsary Will? Which best describes your take on 'will'?
June 7, 2015 at 8:38 pm
(This post was last modified: June 7, 2015 at 8:40 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
That's not what I'm commenting upon, I'm commenting upon the implication that the achievement would, itself, settle some question to the satisfaction of those involved, or be a source of disappointment for those who are sure mind is "other". It wouldn't any more then than the notion does now. No one says "Well until you create a mind I think it's "other"!" People would continue to insist that there is a difference and it isn't really a response that one can dismiss because there being a difference is both a very reasonable expectation of AI, and I would contend, is factually true.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Do Humans Have Compulsary Will? Which best describes your take on 'will'?
June 7, 2015 at 8:41 pm
It seems to me the only way science is going to work on this is if you can engage/disengage a computer with a human brain. So unplug Robo-3000, let it live its day, plug it back into your Matrix-style spine plug, and relive its memories.
Even that I'm not sure about, though. Memories don't necessarily prove experience.
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RE: Do Humans Have Compulsary Will? Which best describes your take on 'will'?
June 7, 2015 at 8:46 pm
(This post was last modified: June 7, 2015 at 8:47 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Of course not, computers have memory and yet we don't credit them with experience. I guess that means our memories, even the memories of our experiences, cant necessarily prove that -we- experience either..eh?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Do Humans Have Compulsary Will? Which best describes your take on 'will'?
June 7, 2015 at 8:50 pm
(June 7, 2015 at 8:46 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Of course not, computers have memory and yet we don't credit them with experience. I guess that means our memories, even the memories of our experiences, cant necessarily prove that -we- experience either..eh?
For all intents and purposes, I cannot prove that anyone or anything exists outside of my mind.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
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RE: Do Humans Have Compulsary Will? Which best describes your take on 'will'?
June 7, 2015 at 9:06 pm
(This post was last modified: June 7, 2015 at 9:07 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
-so there may be no one to prove any of that -to-, and nowhere to prove that to no one in the first place :wink:.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Do Humans Have Compulsary Will? Which best describes your take on 'will'?
June 8, 2015 at 10:02 am
I hate in when my figments philosophically undermine my own existence.
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RE: Do Humans Have Compulsary Will? Which best describes your take on 'will'?
June 8, 2015 at 10:06 am
(This post was last modified: June 8, 2015 at 10:06 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Hey, what can you do, eh?....The hardware just can't "think" it's way around that loop.
(also....  )
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Do Humans Have Compulsary Will? Which best describes your take on 'will'?
June 8, 2015 at 3:42 pm
(June 7, 2015 at 8:23 pm)Rhythm Wrote: I think that this is a grossly naive and hopeful expectation both of the computer, and people.
The notion that people would abandon or be disappointed by their ideas of the uniqueness of consciousness or mind, that AI would not be a seperate category, ignores that people already make those arguments. That even if we achieved AI (and assuming this was a way to do it) they would still just be machines in motion..which is different, somehow, than our own minds or consciousness. Similarly, the idea that a computer would demonstrate mind with such an algorithm is strange on it;s face. Presuming that ants do it this way, we do not see the colony as having mind, and so if the computer did it that way..we would think what? Presuming that the algorithm we use -is human- than the machine is just "pretending". On and on it goes. I think an interesting twist on whether AI can simulate the Human Mind, is the idea that the humans are just AI to begin with.
There's a lot of semantics involved with that statement of course, but the idea that the biological mass we call a Human is just "pretending" seems like a possibility.
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