Why are there no help hotlines for bullies?

[vorlon13]

Helplines are probably better than one on one counseling as that way the counselor is less likely to get beaten up.

[Joods]

Unfortunately, the bully would have to admit that this is what they are. Sadly, denial happens. No one really knows what goes on inside the heads of bullies to truly understand why they do the things they do. And actually, there are anger management programs that could possibly help. But that crucial first step is in getting the bully to admit that he is one and then further convince them that they need help.

Is that not the same with the victim?

Nobody want's to admit they have a fault. No one wants to come out and say they are getting bullied, just as much as being the bullier.


There are lots of things that "Getting the person to admit" applies to, and all of them have already brainstormed and come up with various ways whether additions to advertisements, or any addition really to whatever service they're providing. That's where the whole phrase "You are not alone" applies to.

Also do you think anyone wants to get counseling? That would involve admitting to parents about what you are doing, and neither parties in question want to do that. That's the entire reason for anonymous hotline's, to get help on something you don't want anyone to know you're struggling with.


And either way, that's no reason to disregard the idea, there are definitely measures and steps that can be taken in order to increase the persons chance of admitting to themself.
Or maybe they don't even admit it. Maybe we make it manditory that schools gather each kid every year and put them in an enclosed room with a phone, and they are required to talk to a person who's an expert in this, and they can detect what this person's like, because they will probably have a warped perception of them self to begin with. And if someone's a candidate, we don't need people coming down on them, we need people to treat this as they would an abuse case, bully case, etc. we need people to carefully and methodically coax them in to it, and tell them to do, or ask them for small things. That can be as little as if the "expert" thinks this person fits the description as saying "I'd love to know more, can you talk to me again?", and slowly be able to learn more and more about the situation, and slowly help them or get them to change. It works in many other area's in which people have trouble admitting faults like this.

First of all, where in my post did I ever say to disregard the idea? Clearly as evidenced by your lengthy reply, you read way more into my comment than necessary.  Secondly, comparing the bully to the victim is like comparing an apple to an orange. The bully is violating the victim, who didn't ask to be violated or to become a victim. That choice was made for them the moment the bully decided to be a bully and go after their target.

[Heat]

Interesting perspective. I've always had deep hatred for bullying. It's hard to see the bully as a person with his or her own struggles.

That's because a lot of people will unknowingly forget there's always two sides to consider.

Almost every case of bullying the bully has some type of issue, whether physical or mental.


Hardly anyone acts violent for no reason, take American History X for example. Even in instances where people appear to incite violence for no reason at all, the deeper you dig there's always a reason, even if most of the times not a very good one.

I'm not here suggesting bullying is anything less than horrible. However, that's only the action, and the people on the other hand are often not 'anything less than horrible'

[Joods]

Yes, and if a victim of bullying possessed the self-awareness and emotional stability to recognize that they have issues they probably wouldn't be victims, and would get help.

That is the most absurd thing I have ever heard. This is nothing more than projection and a very weak attempt at making an argument. Sure, let's blame the victim because they don't possess the emotional stability and self-awareness enough to keep themselves from being bullied. What a crock of shit. 

Excuse me, but I WAS a victim of bullying in ELEMENTARY SCHOOL. You want to know what happened when I said something to an adult at school about it? Nothing good. If anything, it made things worse because now those kids really had a reason to go after me. And they did. 

I NEVER asked to be bullied. Using a third grader as an example, I can tell you from experience that a child, much less a young one, does not possess enough "self-awareness" and emotional stability to recognize they have issues. Furthermore, what makes you think the victim has issues to begin with?  

In my case, we had just moved and I was the "new kid" at school. I was shy and that is what made me an easy target. If you think that being a new kid to school and being shy are "issues" then you lack empathy and compassion. 

Again, Victims don't start their day out thinking, hmm... I think I'll go be a victim of bullying today. You're delusional if you think they do.

[Heat]

First of all, where in my post did I ever say to disregard the idea? Clearly as evidenced by your lengthy reply, you read way more into my comment than necessary. 

I may have mispoke.

Secondly, comparing the bully to the victim is like comparing an apple to an orange. The bully is violating the victim, who didn't ask to be violated or to become a victim. That choice was made for them the moment the bully decided to be a bully and go after their target.

I never said any of that. Stop misrepresenting me.


I clearly mentioned numerous times I was in no way giving justification to bullying, the bad guy is very clear. However, that's not even the point I was addressing. I was not giving my opinion on the action itself, but the underlying cause. I'm not saying that it is in any way the victim's fault. I'm saying the fact of the matter is that the bully initiated the attack because in most circumstances he will be the one with the most problems. So we should treat each persons problems with the same importance. I am not suggesting that the victim deserved any of the attacks. I am simply saying that they are each different situations and are not linear like we are lead to believe. For the past many many years, we have swiftly scolded the bully as acting out for no reason, and have focused all our efforts on the victim. We have not even considered the fact that the bully may have serious issues himself. We have targeted all our ads toward saying bullying is bad.


The difference is that we have always targeted ads, hotlines, websites, help groups towards bullying prevention, and the victim speaking up. Although this may be effective, it is doing nothing to stop the bully from bullying in the first place.

[Athene]

If bullies possessed the self-awareness to recognize that they have issues they probably wouldn't be bullies.

Yes, and if a victim of bullying possessed the self-awareness and emotional stability to recognize that they have issues they probably wouldn't be victims, and would get help.


Yet somehow, these people get coaxed in to realizing the situation regardless of these facts.


See my response to Judi.

I can see your point having some validity when dealing with children. Not at all with adults, though. Totally different ballgame, in my opinion.

[Heat]

Yes, and if a victim of bullying possessed the self-awareness and emotional stability to recognize that they have issues they probably wouldn't be victims, and would get help.

That is the most absurd thing I have ever heard. This is nothing more than projection and a very weak attempt at making an argument. Sure, let's blame the victim because they don't possess the emotional stability and self-awareness enough to keep themselves from being bullied. What a crock of shit. 

Excuse me, but I WAS a victim of bullying in ELEMENTARY SCHOOL. You want to know what happened when I said something to an adult at school about it? Nothing good. If anything, it made things worse because now those kids really had a reason to go after me. And they did. 

I NEVER asked to be bullied. Using a third grader as an example, I can tell you from experience that a child, much less a young one, does not possess enough "self-awareness" and emotional stability to recognize they have issues. Furthermore, what makes you think the victim has issues to begin with?  

In my case, we had just moved and I was the "new kid" at school. I was shy and that is what made me an easy target. If you think that being a new kid to school and being shy are "issues" then you lack empathy and compassion. 

Again, Victims don't start their day out thinking, hmm... I think I'll go be a victim of bullying today. You're delusional if you think they do.

Not responding to you again as:

• You COMPLETELY cut off the point I was making, and the parallel comparison.
  
• You are responding with the same cut-and-dry instant disregard of this opinion I mentioned.
  

I was making a comparison as to the fact that victims have trouble speaking out just as much, yet we've still managed to convince them to. You agreed with this, and told me the exact same thing. I made the parallel comparison that if victims struggle and still are able to, bullies can as well, but you rudely and ignorantly cut that part off so that you could reply and feed your emotional anger.

"Sure, let's blame the victim because they don't possess the emotional stability and self-awareness enough to keep themselves from being bullied. What a crock of shit. "
AND OKAY, DID I EVER SAY LET'S BLAME THE VICTIM? YOU'RE RIGHT WHAT A CROCK OF SHIT YOUR STATEMENT IS, AS IF I EVEN REMOTELY WAS TRYING TO BLAME THE VICTIM.

"Furthermore, what makes you think the victim has issues to begin with? "
NOTHING! I SAID THE OPPOSITE!

"In my case, we had just moved and I was the "new kid" at school. I was shy and that is what made me an easy target. If you think that being a new kid to school and being shy are "issues" then you lack empathy and compassion."
I said that the victim may have issues after the fact, we are talking about after the fact, because they may develop issues [I.E Anxiety, Depression] Because of the abuse.

"Again, Victims don't start their day out thinking, hmm... I think I'll go be a victim of bullying today. You're delusional if you think they do."
What the fuck? HOW MANY TIMES DID I SAY IT IS NOT THE VICTIMS FAULT. WHEN DID I EVER EVEN REMOTELY SAY WHAT YOU JUST ATTEMPTED TO CLAIM I DID.


You are an asshole. You misrepresented me in every SINGLE line of that post, and tried to make it seem like I claimed those ridiculous claims you said.
Goodbye. I refuse to respond any more to someone with that much of disrespect, someone that is so angry they don't even think before typing. Someone who calls me delusional, among other insults for making statements that they conjured up in their head.

[Joods]

First of all, where in my post did I ever say to disregard the idea? Clearly as evidenced by your lengthy reply, you read way more into my comment than necessary. 

I may have mispoke.

Secondly, comparing the bully to the victim is like comparing an apple to an orange. The bully is violating the victim, who didn't ask to be violated or to become a victim. That choice was made for them the moment the bully decided to be a bully and go after their target.

I never said any of that. Stop misrepresenting me.


I clearly mentioned numerous times I was in no way giving justification to bullying, the bad guy is very clear. However, that's not even the point I was addressing. I was not giving my opinion on the action itself, but the underlying cause. I'm not saying that it is in any way the victim's fault. I'm saying the fact of the matter is that the bully initiated the attack because in most circumstances he will be the one with the most problems. So we should treat each persons problems with the same importance. I am not suggesting that the victim deserved any of the attacks. I am simply saying that they are each different situations and are not linear like we are lead to believe. For the past many many years, we have swiftly scolded the bully as acting out for no reason, and have focused all our efforts on the victim. We have not even considered the fact that the bully may have serious issues himself. We have targeted all our ads toward saying bullying is bad.


The difference is that we have always targeted ads, hotlines, websites, help groups towards bullying prevention, and the victim speaking up. Although this may be effective, it is doing nothing to stop the bully from bullying in the first place.

You compared a bully to a victim the moment you asked, and I quote: 

Is that not the same with the victim?

 

And you asked that because I said this: 

Unfortunately, the bully would have to admit that this is what they are. Sadly, denial happens. No one really knows what goes on inside the heads of bullies to truly understand why they do the things they do. And actually, there are anger management programs that could possibly help. But that crucial first step is in getting the bully to admit that he is one and then further convince them that they need help.

So, it was not a mis-representation. All I did was take that comparison one step farther and expand on why it's unfair to do that. It's called furthering the discussion.

[Losty]

Actually in the UK they have a help hotline for people with violent tendencies. I found it the other day while googling something. I'll link it later.

[Joods]

LOL I'm the angry one, yet I'm not the one bolding and capping most of my words. Interesting. Whatever. People can read for themselves how you did an about face when presented with your own words. You didn't state anything about not blaming the victim until post #15 which came AFTER your question which essentially was comparing a victim to a bully. I won't re-hash this with you, as I can clearly see you are getting ready to demonstrate some anger issues. I simply presented a statement of opinion on how difficult it might be to get a bully to admit to being a bully and you just went into a tizzy from there. I wasn't even addressing that particular comment at you, but you somehow feel the need to just circumvent everything and act as I put words in your mouth, which I didn't. I was expanding on the conversation, which is what most normal, rational thinking people do when presenting a discussion. Opinions get stated and it goes on from there. If you can't do it without bolding and using all caps in your posts, then I'm not the angry person, you are.