What is the best theory for what intelligence is?

[DespondentFishdeathMasochismo]

How to begin... well to start off, isn't it kind of meaningless, to say someone is more or less intelligent? It shouldn't have any impact on how you enjoy and live your life. It would be like measuring dick size, to say intelligence level really mattered. Generally speaking, with the average person, ability to learn may come faster for others, but in general someone could be really smart but behave really dumb, or vice versa. I know that IQ is based up of the average score of many different score. 

I personally don't like IQ, I think it's demeaning, it makes intelligence feel like a race. It puts a label on you, it says that there's some people who are indefinitely more intelligent. It just upsets me sometimes that there's people who don't have to try very hard, yet they're way more intelligent than so many people. It gives me a feeling like there's inequality, intelligence gives people a ton of advantages and makes their lives easier. 

It annoys me, because some people seem to have advantages with so many things. When I see a school work or homework assignment, I just think oh fuck me. I have to waste my time doing this arduous shit. Then I cram it into the bottom of by back pack, so it gets covered in dirt and stuff, I'd rarely even start the assignments. I admit, I feel pretty stupid a lot, because I don't find school easy, I always despised my stupid immature peers when I was in high school. Even though I fucking hated school work, I wanted to be in the advanced classes so I could live in the high echelons of society. 

So intelligence always meant something to me, I wish it didn't though. I dunno if you could even say school is a good measure of intelligence. I've always said school is a good measure of how good of a business man you are. It just teaches you to be obedient and work and do stuff on time. It doesn't really require much higher thinking, it just requires a bunch of patience mostly. That's the end of my boring blog entry. I just thought it would help put it into perspective of why this even matters to me at all.

[KUSA]

I'm sorry that you have IQ envy.

[Edwardo Piet]

Intelligence is complex.

I think intelligence is all about the extent to which we are capable of comprehending complex information.

And I don't think that that can be measured.

I don't think intelligence is about memory, knowledge or thinking speed. I think it's about what you're capable of understanding.

[bennyboy]

We use all kinds of words meaningfully that don't/can't have precise definitions: beauty, value, love.

It's obvious that some people are dumb as posts, some people are brilliant, and some people are in between. And when we zoom in on details, of course it's very hard to define exactly what it is; you probably couldn't zoom in on Rembrandt's brush control and find any measure of artistic ability there. Certainly, a number can't measure a person's worth, any more than shoe size or eye color.

What we CAN do is measure people's vocabulary, their ability to solve puzzles, their recall, their reading speed, etc. etc. If a person is good at a lot of things, we can generally say that school or work tasks will be easier for them than for others. Our problem historically will be that we look at these independent of other real-life skills, like leadership, charisma (try measuring that!), stamina, emotional stability, etc. which affect our ability to get real-life results.

But we'd have to be pretty unintelligent not to accept that intelligence is very real, and that it matters.

[Cato]

DFM,

There's so much to unpack here that I struggle with where to begin.

I will immediately agree that attempts at quantifying intelligence (IQ tests) are mostly bullshit; a fact that has been long understood. I encourage you to read Stephen Jay Gould's The Mismeasure of Man. Even if we were to take IQ at face value, there is little practicality. I would not have asked Einstein to fix my car, nor would I ask my mechanic to help me solve a physics problem. The issue with IQ is what if Einstein was actually an excellent mechanic or that my regular mechanic had a passion for physics? Each would outclass each other in their discipline, but it does not necessarily inhibit either from being valuable otherwise.

Some of what follows in your post reminds me of when my son tried to extole the superiority of blue collar vs. white collar over a decade ago when I lit into his ass because he was blowing off homework for the sake of some immediate gratification. Don't get me wrong, I would still rather spend time in a batting cage or play my bass than work everyday, but only a few are capable of making a living that way. 

I don't get why you call former peers in advanced classes stupid and immature. Leveraging my experience with my son you come across as someone that simply doesn't want to put in the work and are using the idea of IQ to deflect accountability. How are you defining 'high echelons of society'? Unless things have drastically changed in 30 years, being in advanced classes punched your ticket into a class that didn't participate in high school high echelons of society. 

However you define high echelons of society and seemingly have always known what is required to get there, the only person you should be consulting regarding your frustration is in the mirror. Let's be honest though, most people that pursue intellectual occupations don't often make a shitload of money (again having to assume what you mean by high echelons of society). 

You started off with a meaningful quandary regarding IQ, only to taint it with what comes across as a lazy person's sense of entitlement. Everyone is born with natural limitations regarding the upper boundary on his/her physical or cognitive capability; that's a simple fact of life, but there's a lot of room to play before ever coming close to the boundary. Another fact is that much can be overcome and achieved through a passionate force of will manifesting itself in effort to achieve what you want. 

The lack of personal accountability that comes with your charge that others are where they are simply because of advantage betrays you. Others may have what you call advantages, but that's life. It's your responsibility to play the hand you're dealt by doing your proverbial homework.

[ApeNotKillApe]

You know a high IQ isn't a declaration of total mental superiority in all facets, right? "Intelligence" in that sense refers only to cognitive abilities, of which some possess superior aptitude to others, just like social skills, musical talent or any other facet of a human's abilities, none of which come prepackaged with cognitive skill.

[drfuzzy]

I know some very genius-level people who have zero emotional IQ.  They can solve complex physics problems, but can make everyone at a party hate their guts within 10 minutes.  Intelligence is more than just how you score on a test.

If you want to get to a "higher eschelon of society" you don't necessarily need advanced classes or even advanced degrees.  What you do need is the willingness to work yourself half to death for something.  In other words, discipline.

You come off as young.  You write well though.  You have the gift of time to mold yourself into . . . nearly anyone you choose to be.

[bennyboy]

I think in real life, wit is the essence of intelligence. It requires a good understanding of multiple contexts, and the ability to bring separate contexts together and introduce them in a social setting. It is rare that one gets the chance to show off one's maze-solving ability.

[Edwardo Piet]

I maintain that intelligence encompasses all forms of one's ability to comprehend information, and the more complex the information you are able to comprehend the more intelligent you are. Measuring that is the problem.

Like there are chess computers now that are farrrrr better than the best chess players in the world. But they're not intelligent at all. Because whilst they are competent, their competence is without comprehension. They do not understand the information that they process.

(I personally feel that when it comes to my own comprehension skills: They are above average at least when it comes to my abstract thinking skills. I could, however, be completely wrong on that matter. And what is "above average"? All I have to go by is that the vast majority of people I encounter (IRL, not on this site, there are a lot of smart people here) are like "What the fuck?" when I talk about philosophical ideas, for example, and many of those are very abstract and seem to just confuse most people. No matter how much I explain it or have someone else much better at explaining it explain it for me, or give them something to read on the matter (or a relevant Youtube link), the vast majority of people I encounter seem incapable of grasping and comprehending abstract profundities.

Although, of course, I'm biased and my own experience is subjective. And, as I said, I consider all forms of comprehension to be relevant to intelligence, not just the abstract, conceptual and philosophical kind).

[DespondentFishdeathMasochismo]

DFM,

There's so much to unpack here that I struggle with where to begin.

I will immediately agree that attempts at quantifying intelligence (IQ tests) are mostly bullshit; a fact that has been long understood. I encourage you to read Stephen Jay Gould's The Mismeasure of Man. Even if we were to take IQ at face value, there is little practicality. I would not have asked Einstein to fix my car, nor would I ask my mechanic to help me solve a physics problem. The issue with IQ is what if Einstein was actually an excellent mechanic or that my regular mechanic had a passion for physics? Each would outclass each other in their discipline, but it does not necessarily inhibit either from being valuable otherwise.

Some of what follows in your post reminds me of when my son tried to extole the superiority of blue collar vs. white collar over a decade ago when I lit into his ass because he was blowing off homework for the sake of some immediate gratification. Don't get me wrong, I would still rather spend time in a batting cage or play my bass than work everyday, but only a few are capable of making a living that way. 

I don't get why you call former peers in advanced classes stupid and immature. Leveraging my experience with my son you come across as someone that simply doesn't want to put in the work and are using the idea of IQ to deflect accountability. How are you defining 'high echelons of society'? Unless things have drastically changed in 30 years, being in advanced classes punched your ticket into a class that didn't participate in high school high echelons of society. 

However you define high echelons of society and seemingly have always known what is required to get there, the only person you should be consulting regarding your frustration is in the mirror. Let's be honest though, most people that pursue intellectual occupations don't often make a shitload of money (again having to assume what you mean by high echelons of society). 

You started off with a meaningful quandary regarding IQ, only to taint it with what comes across as a lazy person's sense of entitlement. Everyone is born with natural limitations regarding the upper boundary on his/her physical or cognitive capability; that's a simple fact of life, but there's a lot of room to play before ever coming close to the boundary. Another fact is that much can be overcome and achieved through a passionate force of will manifesting itself in effort to achieve what you want. 

The lack of personal accountability that comes with your charge that others are where they are simply because of advantage betrays you. Others may have what you call advantages, but that's life. It's your responsibility to play the hand you're dealt by doing your proverbial homework.

Let me stop you where I bolded you. What you wrote here is a misinterpretation. I wasn't saying that the kids in advanced classes were stupid and immature. I was saying that I wished I could be in the advanced classes, where all the kids seemed cooler and more interesting, not the obnoxious swaggernauts who seem like boring unintelligent people in the regular classes. I always felt really out of place in those classes, I wished that I was around the kids in the advanced classes, because I felt like that would be a much better environment for me.

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Look at that. That post got 6 fucking kudos in spite of being a complete misinterpretation. Fuck this world.

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I WAS NEVER IN ADVANCED CLASSES. I MEANT I WISH I WAS IN THEM. I HATED REGULAR CLASSES, KIDS IN ADVANCED CLASSES SEEMED COOLER AND SMARTER.