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RE: Freedom
December 15, 2015 at 3:29 pm
(December 14, 2015 at 4:54 pm)Kingpin Wrote: A few times I have heard atheists on this site being glad they are "free" from religion or they now have "freedom". I would like to know in what sense do you feel "free" after leaving religion. I assume most felt religion was a form of enslavement to a set of rules, guidelines, etc.
Free of unnecessary guilt over perfectly normal human feelings or actions -- envy, sex without reproduction as a goal, and the like.
(December 14, 2015 at 4:54 pm)Kingpin Wrote: And in second part, do you think freedom means you are free to do entirely as you choose? Is freedom without limits? If there are limits, then are you really free?
Freedom, like most other human abstractions, is not black-and-white, in my view; it resides on a continuum. I'm am free to do as I choose within my power on some matters. On others, that freedom is restricted by my personal ethos, state sanction, or the response of others who might be affected by my action.
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RE: Freedom
December 15, 2015 at 3:29 pm
(This post was last modified: December 15, 2015 at 3:30 pm by Cyberman.)
@Min: So much for the whole Mark 16:18 thing then. 
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Freedom
December 15, 2015 at 3:37 pm
So much for mark and the rest of the bullshit, period.
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RE: Freedom
December 15, 2015 at 3:53 pm
i cant add much more than has already been said except for personal experience. No longer being guilty of having normal human thoughts (sex, hate, anger, joy, desire...).
The break did however put the responsibity of my actions and most things that happen as a result as entirely my own (no god to blame for my thought/actions/conceceinses).
This helped me to become mature and self motivated.
Since i was indoctrinated into Christianity from a very young age, the term "freedom's misty dawn" had a much more profound meaning to me.
The masses seem to make religion a comfortable state but in my oppinion it cant lead to fulfillment of life. I know the devout would disagree and may be for some it does fulfill.
The philosophy of doing unto others as you would want done to you is not a hard philosophy to follow nor is it restricted to only a biblical (or even religious) philosophy. It only takes a good clear look at life to understand why it is better to be a good person toward others rather than a bad person.
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RE: Freedom
December 15, 2015 at 3:54 pm
(December 15, 2015 at 11:05 am)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: (December 15, 2015 at 10:33 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Surgeon, I know you have had particularly bad experience with Christians. I'm sorry, I don't mean to undermine what you went through, or deny that it happened. I guess I can only speak for what I personally have seen/experienced and for the Christians/Catholics who I am close to.
Thank you for your kind words!
That said, a Christian saying "I don't see it" is a little bit like a white person telling Black Lives Matter protesters that it's all in their heads, as if they're making it up, rather than relating what they've experienced, repeatedly, in the shadows, so to speak.
Edit to Add: I know that's not what you're saying, in either case. Just saying that it's less visible to you than to us. You clearly recognize that.
Very true. I am really sorry on behalf of all the Christians who mistreated you.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Freedom
December 15, 2015 at 3:55 pm
(December 15, 2015 at 11:18 am)Vic Wrote: Hey look, another ask a catholic thread (?) .-.
Weeeeeee!! 
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Freedom
December 15, 2015 at 5:27 pm
(December 15, 2015 at 3:25 pm)Minimalist Wrote: After a tragic accident, a bus load of nuns die and find themselves queued up outside the Pearly Gates waiting for St. Peter. He arrives, and asks the first nun if she's ever touched a penis. The nun blushes furiously and admits that she did once, with the tip of her finger. "My child, dip the tip of your finger in this Holy Water and you may go through," says St Peter. The second nun admits to holding a penis once. "My child, dip your hand in the Holy Water and you may pass," he says. Then he hears a huge commotion at the back of the queue.
"Sister Mary, Sister Agnes, what is the fuss all about?" he demands...
Sister Mary stops short and turns to him and says, "Well, if I've got to gargle I want to do it before Sister Agnes sticks her butt in the water!"
I love it!
My favorite of that sort of joke is:
Sister Mary Jo goes into the Confessional and tells the priest: "Father, I saw Sister Mary Catherine buying condoms."
The priest scolds her, "You are here to confess your sins, Sister. Mary Catherine can confess when her time comes."
"Okay, Father," Mary Jo replied. "I have sinned. I poked holes in Sister Mary Catherine's condoms."
The priest passed out.
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
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