Another raaaaaaaaaape!!!

[vorlon13]

Kissing someone is not consenting to rape.

By definition, you don't consent to 'rape'.

Not to split hairs, but the 'identical twin brother switcheroo' complicates the daylights out of that.

[Napoléon]

It's ridiculous to see unfairness on one side and think that justifies unfairness on another side.

Lol nobody said this.

[Mermaid]

I am in NO WAY attempting to paint ANYONE as a misogynist. Please do not put words in my mouth. I have no desire to antagonize. That is the opposite of why I am participating in this thread. I NEVER said you were not sympathtic. Please stop trying to paint me as an angry, misandrist feminist.

I am just speaking as someone who knows what it's like on the other side of that fence. My hope is that it will help with understanding, perhaps that's naive of me.

To your list of questions, how would answering either way to any of those make me at fault? This is what the police asked me as well. They told me that I shouldn't have done that. A young, cute girl should expect that sort of thing if she wasn't paying attention.

If I'm misinterpreting you, then I'm sorry.  I'm getting pissed off because it seems like everyone is misinterpreting what I'm trying to (and obviously failing) to say.  So, I'll attempt to rephrase:

You are not at fault for your rape.  I will say it until the cows come home.  The rapist is the person who bears the responsibility.  That's it.  And the cops did a shitty job trying to make you feel responsible or guilty for it.

The risk mitigation stuff I'm trying (and, again, failing) to talk about is tangential, but still somewhat related.  My point isn't that you, this other lady, or anyone else should live in paranoia or fear from would-be assailants.  That if you don't engage in Jason Bourne personal security measures that you invited an assault or rape upon yourself.  What I'm trying to say is that jumping headlong into an obviously risky situation (like jumping in a shower with, and kissing, a drunk stranger) is dumb.  It does not excuse whatever crime may occur, but it most definitely increases the risk of it happening.

I hope that lady's rapist gets the book thrown at him.  I also hope she's far less naive in the future and learns to recognize (and avoid!) such an obvious trap in the future.

I don't know enough about your situation, but if it happened in a known risky/dangerous place, I would hope you would avoid going there alone at night in the future if you can help it.  Not because "Oh, shit, there you go inviting rape on yourself again, you harlot," but simply to avoid taking a recognized unnecessary risk.

Keep in mind, I'm not talking about risk mitigation just in terms of rape, but in a more general sense.  And, yes, I'm very aware that people can do everything reasonably expected of them, but still get assaulted/raped/harmed.

Message heard.

We disagree fundamentally on the basics of blame. The victim is 0% to blame. It is wise to protect oneself, that is true. But it has nothing to do with culpability.

[KevinM1]

Just because men are treated unfairly in society on this issue doesn't mean we can treat women the same way. The focus should be on making sure that people realize that both men and women can get raped, and both men and woman can consent and then revoke consent at any time.

Absolutely this 100%. Two wrongs do not make a right. Rape is rape, consent is consent: It's ridiculous to see unfairness on one side and think that justifies unfairness on another side.

The next season of American Crime on ABC will deal with this, actually.  It's about a high school-to-college aged male getting drunk at a party, then getting raped.

[Edwardo Piet]

Kissing someone is not consenting to rape.

By definition, you don't consent to 'rape'.

I know. I'm not a moron. I already said exactly that earlier in the thread:

There's by definition no such thing as "asking for" rape.

If you can ask for it, it's not rape.

If it's rape, you didn't and couldn't have asked for it.

Rape is rape. And kissing someone in a shower is not consenting to sex.

Instead of being pedantic about my wording try to focus on my point that it makes no sense to blame the victim.

What I'm saying is that when you kiss someone that doesn't give a rapist a right to rape someone. Nothing does. Of course. Yes this is obvious and shouldn't need saying and yet some people still come here and say that the woman might be partially to blame if they get raped!

[Tiberius]

If a rape victim consented to sex and then withdrew consent during the act, it's still rape if the person having sex with the victim continues to have sex with them.

It doesn't matter if someone is "asking for it". A person can request sex and then refuse it, even during the act. Consenting to see doesn't mean you have to go through with the entire act.

Show me where I said anything to contend this.

I never said you did. My first response was a general comment in the thread. My second post was to you directly, and I quoted you.

If I don't quote someone I'm usually not responding to anyone in particular.

[KevinM1]

If I'm misinterpreting you, then I'm sorry.  I'm getting pissed off because it seems like everyone is misinterpreting what I'm trying to (and obviously failing) to say.  So, I'll attempt to rephrase:

You are not at fault for your rape.  I will say it until the cows come home.  The rapist is the person who bears the responsibility.  That's it.  And the cops did a shitty job trying to make you feel responsible or guilty for it.

The risk mitigation stuff I'm trying (and, again, failing) to talk about is tangential, but still somewhat related.  My point isn't that you, this other lady, or anyone else should live in paranoia or fear from would-be assailants.  That if you don't engage in Jason Bourne personal security measures that you invited an assault or rape upon yourself.  What I'm trying to say is that jumping headlong into an obviously risky situation (like jumping in a shower with, and kissing, a drunk stranger) is dumb.  It does not excuse whatever crime may occur, but it most definitely increases the risk of it happening.

I hope that lady's rapist gets the book thrown at him.  I also hope she's far less naive in the future and learns to recognize (and avoid!) such an obvious trap in the future.

I don't know enough about your situation, but if it happened in a known risky/dangerous place, I would hope you would avoid going there alone at night in the future if you can help it.  Not because "Oh, shit, there you go inviting rape on yourself again, you harlot," but simply to avoid taking a recognized unnecessary risk.

Keep in mind, I'm not talking about risk mitigation just in terms of rape, but in a more general sense.  And, yes, I'm very aware that people can do everything reasonably expected of them, but still get assaulted/raped/harmed.

Message heard.

We disagree fundamentally on the basics of blame. The victim is 0% to blame. It is wise to protect oneself, that is true. But it has nothing to do with culpability.

Oy... you just said what I've been trying to say.

Am I really that hard to understand?

Is me repeatedly saying that the fault lies with the rapist somehow indecipherable?

I'm honestly curious, because I've been going out of my way to say that, yet you're somehow not reading me, and I'd like to know where the disconnect is.

[Edwardo Piet]

The victim is 0% to blame. It is wise to protect oneself, that is true. But it has nothing to do with culpability.

Exactly.

Victim blaming is a serious issue. It's absolutely the wrong wording to say that the victim is ever "to blame", that is damaging to the victims.

[Mermaid]

People, including the police department, said these VERY same things to me. I should be more careful and was partially to blame for walking alone at night. Was I?

I don't know.

How late was it?
Do you live on a dark street?
Are there ample places for an assailant to hide?
Is it in a neighborhood that has a relatively high crime rate?

Kevin, this is what I am referring to. I asked if I was partially to blame here, and your reply implies that maybe I was. That's a different thing than the victim being 0% to blame. I am seriously not trying to be antagonistic. Just trying to have a dialog on an admittedly raw and emotional topic, but one that I find unbelievably important.

[Edwardo Piet]

This is what caused the confusion I think, Kevin:

People, including the police department, said these VERY same things to me. I should be more careful and was partially to blame for walking alone at night. Was I?

I don't know.

How late was it?
Do you live on a dark street?
Are there ample places for an assailant to hide?
Is it in a neighborhood that has a relatively high crime rate?

My underlines.

Sure you then contradict yourself by following it up immediately with:

Keep in mind, like I and everyone else has said in this thread: RAPE IS THE FAULT OF THE RAPIST

But I still think it caused the confusion.