Ask a Bible college Student

[GrandizerII]

Well thank you Emzap. hehehehehehe

FYI, sperm penetrating egg does not always result in a human being (even as a zygote) even though it is a new combination of human DNA and can multiply.

Heh, yeah I know I answered for him. Sowwy!

And well, he/she may die before getting the chance to mature enough to take the form of a person (either by miscarriage or failure to stick to the uterous), but that's still a human entity.

Again, being human does not make one a whole human being (person). I get that, by your faith, you must believe that a one cell (in this case, a fertilized egg) can be a human being, but this is not supported by good reason.

[Catholic_Lady]

Heh, yeah I know I answered for him. Sowwy!

And well, he/she may die before getting the chance to mature enough to take the form of a person (either by miscarriage or failure to stick to the uterous), but that's still a human entity.

Gestational trophobalstic disease (hydatidiform mole) can have 46XX and 46XY, normally considered human. It never develops fetal tissue but it does attach to the uterus and does multiply. It is definitely not human. Not going to show you the gross pathology picture. No woman should have to see that.

Chromosomal abnormalities don't make someone unhuman. The offspring of 2 humans is always going to be a human lol. It makes no sense for 2 humans to conceive a different species.

[Catholic_Lady]

Heh, yeah I know I answered for him. Sowwy!

And well, he/she may die before getting the chance to mature enough to take the form of a person (either by miscarriage or failure to stick to the uterous), but that's still a human entity.

Again, being human does not make one a whole human being (person). I get that, by your faith, you must believe that a one cell (in this case, a fertilized egg) can be a human being, but this is not supported by good reason.

It's not even so much a "faith" thing as it is a science thing. I was NEVER a different species of animal, and there's no such thing as half human, part human, or whole human. Human is human. I was always me and I was always human. Even for the very very brief time that I only consisted of one cell. It isn't the number of cells that makes someone human or not. It's the type of cells. It's the DNA that's in there. There is no arbitrary number we reach in regards to cells in our body where all of the sudden we "become" a "whole human" vs a part human or whatever that is.

[Mister Agenda]

Gestational trophobalstic disease (hydatidiform mole) can have 46XX and 46XY, normally considered human. It never develops fetal tissue but it does attach to the uterus and does multiply. It is definitely not human. Not going to show you the gross pathology picture. No woman should have to see that.

Chromosomal abnormalities don't make someone unhuman. The offspring of 2 humans is always going to be a human lol. It makes no sense for 2 humans to conceive a different species.

If you consider genetic structure the only essential marker for what's human (rather than awareness, viability, a functioning brain, etc.), what do you make of HeLa cells? Is a HeLa cell a human being?

[Faith No More]

It's not even so much a "faith" thing as it is a science thing. I was NEVER a different species of animal, and there's no such thing as half human, part human, or whole human. Human is human. I was always me and I was always human. Even for the very very brief time that I only consisted of one cell. It isn't the number of cells that makes someone human or not. It's the type of cells. It's the DNA that's in there. There is no arbitrary number we reach in regards to cells in our body where all of the sudden we "become" a "whole human" vs a part human or whatever that is.

So, by that logic, when my wife and I donated the leftover embryos for research after we went through IVF, we were handing over human beings to be experimented on and discarded. Do we deserve to go to jail for that?

[Catholic_Lady]

Chromosomal abnormalities don't make someone unhuman. The offspring of 2 humans is always going to be a human lol. It makes no sense for 2 humans to conceive a different species.

If you consider genetic structure the only essential marker for what's human (rather than awareness, viability, a functioning brain, etc.), what do you make of HeLa cells? Is a HeLa cell a human being?

Genetic structure is the only thing that makes sense for us to declare the species of an entity. Being in a comma doesn't make someone unhuman. Needing some sort of life line to survive doesn't make someone unhuman. And there are plenty of people who don't have a fully functioning brain and some babies are born with no brain at all. They survive for a few minutes and then die. It's not like they were not human lol. 

As far as I am aware, a hela cell is a person's cancer cell. It's a different cell type, and it has the DNA makeup of the person it came from. Not its own unique set of human DNA.

[Catholic_Lady]

It's not even so much a "faith" thing as it is a science thing. I was NEVER a different species of animal, and there's no such thing as half human, part human, or whole human. Human is human. I was always me and I was always human. Even for the very very brief time that I only consisted of one cell. It isn't the number of cells that makes someone human or not. It's the type of cells. It's the DNA that's in there. There is no arbitrary number we reach in regards to cells in our body where all of the sudden we "become" a "whole human" vs a part human or whatever that is.

So, by that logic, when my wife and I donated the leftover embryos for research after we went through IVF, we were handing over human beings to be experimented on and discarded.  Do we deserve to go to jail for that?

...And that is why I am ethically opposed to IVF. Because that's a human life. Whether or not you go to jail depends on the law. It's legal, so no. I doubt you would have done that if it was an illegal thing to do.

[FatAndFaithless]

Fun fact, HeLa cells are an immortal laboratory cell line taken from Henrietta Lacks' cervical cancer tumor in 1951, used in laboratory testing for all sorts of situations since then. (I like to nerd out on this stuff, part of my thesis was on it.)

[Edwardo Piet]

Heh, yeah I know I answered for him. Sowwy!

And well, he/she may die before getting the chance to mature enough to take the form of a person (either by miscarriage or failure to stick to the uterous), but that's still a human entity.

Again, being human does not make one a whole human being (person). I get that, by your faith, you must believe that a one cell (in this case, a fertilized egg) can be a human being, but this is not supported by good reason.

Semantics. I'd say they were a human being but not a person yet (member of society) (I don't differentiate between "a human" and "a human being", as far as I am concerned the former is shorthand for the latter).

I don't care if they're human or not, that's why I care about the suffering of animals too. What I care about is whether fetuses can suffer as much as the mother: and they can't.

[Mister Agenda]

If you consider genetic structure the only essential marker for what's human (rather than awareness, viability, a functioning brain, etc.), what do you make of HeLa cells? Is a HeLa cell a human being?

Genetic structure is the only thing that makes sense for us to declare the species of an entity. Being in a comma doesn't make someone unhuman. Needing some sort of life line to survive doesn't make someone unhuman. And there are plenty of people who don't have a fully functioning brain and some babies are born with no brain at all. They survive for a few minutes and then die. It's not like they were not human lol. 

As far as I am aware, a hela cell is a person's cancer cell. It's a different cell type, and it has the DNA makeup of the person it came from. Not its own unique set of human DNA.

So it's okay to kill identical twins because their DNA isn't unique? Or one of them, at least?

Fun fact: when someone is brain dead, it's legal to let them die even if the rest of their body if functioning fine. There's a difference between being in a coma and lacking one of the qualities most of the rest of us consider essential to be considered a living human being.

And you seem to be conflating 'human' and 'human being' in a convenient way. My cheek scrapings are human, genetically speaking.