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RE: The Problem with Pascal's Wager
May 10, 2018 at 9:06 pm
(May 10, 2018 at 8:59 pm)robvalue Wrote: Believing anything at all "just in case" is a flawed concept. It could be that all the good things you thought you were getting by believing it actually apply to those who don't believe it; and vice versa for any bad things.
For example, it could be that I "get into heaven" if and only if I don't believe in God. So believing in God is not "playing it safe" at all.
This is why unfalsifiable propositions are utterly useless.
It is not only shallow, on a mass scale, it can be quite dangerous. The worst atrocities in human history worldwide were committed by masses who were absolutely sure. The bait of a utopia payoff is where the "just in case" argument works. That is why I despise Pascal.
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RE: The Problem with Pascal's Wager
May 10, 2018 at 9:08 pm
(May 10, 2018 at 6:11 pm)Minimalist Wrote: I'd love to see some xtian asshole come face to face with Odin after not dying with a weapon in his hand.
My hands ARE weapons baby, so I'm covered.
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RE: The Problem with Pascal's Wager
May 10, 2018 at 9:16 pm
(May 10, 2018 at 9:08 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: (May 10, 2018 at 6:11 pm)Minimalist Wrote: I'd love to see some xtian asshole come face to face with Odin after not dying with a weapon in his hand.
My hands ARE weapons baby, so I'm covered.
My hands are too, but I use a pen or a keyboard. I have no fear of the fictional, but the fans of fiction often scare me when they are willing to kill over it.
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RE: The Problem with Pascal's Wager
May 10, 2018 at 9:20 pm
Paranoia will destroy ya.
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RE: The Problem with Pascal's Wager
May 10, 2018 at 10:41 pm
Check under your seats!
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: The Problem with Pascal's Wager
May 10, 2018 at 10:50 pm
(This post was last modified: May 10, 2018 at 10:51 pm by Magilla.)
(May 10, 2018 at 7:21 pm)Hammy Wrote: (May 10, 2018 at 7:17 pm)Rhondazvous Wrote: I understand. If you were forced to believe it is true, then you have to believe that you believe it is true because it is true. If you didn't believe that you believe it is true because it is true, then you don't believe it is true and haven't been forced to believe it's true.
Well... I could believe something was true without it being true, of course.
The point is that whether it's logical or illogical reasoning that compels me to believe... reasoning compels me to believe.
Not in God of course. In that argument against free will I was talking about. Or anything else I believe to be true or false.
And... when I was younger I used to think that if God was real then as an atheist I'd be going to hell. But I don't believe that anymore. And despite the fact I would have happily believed in God just to avoid hell... I didn't because I couldn't force myself to believe. But thankfully there was also the anti-pascal's wager: I'd be wasting my life if I believed in God because there's a 99.999999999% chance that God doesn't exist and that there is no afterlife so to spend the one life I have wasting all my time praying to something that doesn't exist would be wasting my whole life away.
Of course, that anti-wager is just as useless... because even if I chose to pray that wouldn't make me actually believe.
Pascal's Wager is not about force. His theory is that it's a good bet to back belief, because if "God's" true you win, and if "God's" false, you don't lose.
The confounding problem is twofold.
1. You can't just say: "OK, I'll believe". You either believe or you don't. Pretending or claiming to believe is not the same as real belief.
2. The wager is set up as a dichotomy: It's either "God" or no "God". But it presumes the god of Christianity, (I think). What if some other god is the true god? What if there is a god, but the truth is that the god will punish people who simply plump for claiming belief, without good reason. In the latter case, the faithful may be the ones who get punished. There can be a myriad of possible wagers to take on, and many of them may be incompatible with some or all of the others.
Your best bet, IMHO is to go with evidence *, reasoning and logic, ( * = good, check-able evidence, valid reasoning and logic which takes you where the evidence leads). Your conclusion may have to be: "I don't know", but that's better than saying: "I do know", if you don't. Pascal's Wager is a philosophical proposition, and as such, all possibilities should be considered and weighed up. As a probabilistic question, the ratio of probability of "God" or no "God" being a good bet, is not 50:50, but is surely quite unknowable.
There are no atheists in terrorist training camps.
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RE: The Problem with Pascal's Wager
May 10, 2018 at 10:56 pm
-as if the lord of creation wouldn;t realize that I;m just hedging bets.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: The Problem with Pascal's Wager
May 10, 2018 at 11:04 pm
(May 10, 2018 at 10:56 pm)Khemikal Wrote: -as if the lord of creation wouldn;t realize that I;m just hedging bets.
Exactly, yes. He knows I don't believe. He knows that I think he's an asshole if he did exist (if we're talking Christianity). I know he knows these things. Yet he would be pleased by me pretending neither of these things were true.
What an absurd being this thing is.
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RE: The Problem with Pascal's Wager
May 10, 2018 at 11:07 pm
I feel the same way. Couldn;t hide the fact that I think he;s a dick if I tried. So why pretend?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: The Problem with Pascal's Wager
May 10, 2018 at 11:10 pm
The level of boredom this giant asshole must have achieved to be playing such pathetic games with its own creation is astonishing. I guess it finally finished Skyrim.
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