The Death Penalty - are you for or against it and why?

[Napoléon]

It is about removing a threat.

..and putting them in jail removes that threat

*AHEM* No.

Are you suggesting a serial murderer has never escaped prison?

[Epimethean]

Or be released ...

http://www.wesleylowe.com/repoff.html

[reverendjeremiah]

Or be released ...

http://www.wesleylowe.com/repoff.html

right..so this small list is proof that anyone who commits a murder deserves to be executed... every last person who has been convicted of murder?


You sure do put a lot of faith into your judicial system.

[Autumnlicious]

Still don't see that wonderful solution you have there for either reversing death or screening out innocents.

However, I applaud Napoleons and Epi's great portrayal of the arch conservative -- "They're just human trash. Let's waste 'em".

Prove me otherwise, given (speaking to Epi) what you wrote. As far as I can see Epi, all you've made as an argument is "They're worthless because they are." and then used that as an argument.

I'm sorry, but statistics and that niggling problem at the top indicate otherwise. So, as much as you like to spout off rhetoric, I'm going to need assurances.

The fact that you advocate a clearly flawed, overly expensive and irreversible solution with no way of reversing a flawed judgement, no way of dealing with the flaws existent in the current system and no rationale other than defining them as human garbage or emotional appeals.

Face it Epi, you're grasping at fundamental straws. Such a shame you've got an interest (working with the prison system) in perpetuating it.

Pity.

[Epimethean]

You continue to miss the point of my argument, Jer. I am NOT arguing that anyone convicted of murder or rape should automatically qualify for the death penalty. I am, however, arguing that the death penalty has its place as a means of removing repeat offenders in the rape and murder categories. If you want to be kinder and gentler and keep them around, that's your business. I do not want them around, nor am I embarrassed to say so. Building more and more prisons is a stupid method of dealing with post adjudication populations. White collar criminals should be in supervised non-institutionalized work settings, making good on their offenses, the non-violent drug using offenders should be in non-penal settings, dealing with addiction and getting the help they need. First time murderers and rapists SHOULD be in prison, and if there are appeals to be made, they are the ones who may merit such being heard. Multiple rapists and murderers are an unfortunate human byproduct and should be terminated.

You seem to think that I am suggesting that, should a man be convicted of vehicular manslaughter, I want him to go straight to the chair. Try to be a bit more realistic. If someone has raped more than one person, has killed more than one person, and especially if that person has done so, been imprisoned, subsequently released, and repeated the offense, get that fucker out of the ranks of the living.

You sound like someone who has never known anyone who has been raped, met anyone who has lost someone to murder, or seen how the criminal legal system works. Sweet naivete-but naivete nonetheless.

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Still don't see that wonderful solution you have there for either reversing death or screening out innocents.

However, I applaud Napoleons and Epi's great portrayal of the arch conservative -- "They're just human trash. Let's waste 'em".

Prove me otherwise, given (speaking to Epi) what you wrote. As far as I can see Epi, all you've made as an argument is "They're worthless because they are." and then used that as an argument.

I'm sorry, but statistics and that niggling problem at the top indicate otherwise. So, as much as you like to spout off rhetoric, I'm going to need assurances.

The fact that you advocate a clearly flawed, overly expensive and irreversible solution with no way of reversing a flawed judgement, no way of dealing with the flaws existent in the current system and no rationale other than defining them as human garbage or emotional appeals.

Face it Epi, you're grasping at fundamental straws. Such a shame you've got an interest (working with the prison system) in perpetuating it.

Pity.

Read what I wrote above, Syn. I have worked in the criminal system and have seen its failings. You can argue for the value of human life until you are blue in the face: It is meaningless when you are dealing with psychopaths and sociopaths who repeat their violent crimes. There is NO compelling reason to keep these beings alive. If you believe that they have worth, build a home for them in your backyard and pay for it yourself.

[reverendjeremiah]

Still don't see that wonderful solution you have there for either reversing death or screening out innocents.

However, I applaud Napoleons and Epi's great portrayal of the arch conservative -- "They're just human trash. Let's waste 'em".

Prove me otherwise, given (speaking to Epi) what you wrote. As far as I can see Epi, all you've made as an argument is "They're worthless because they are." and then used that as an argument.

I'm sorry, but statistics and that niggling problem at the top indicate otherwise. So, as much as you like to spout off rhetoric, I'm going to need assurances.

The fact that you advocate a clearly flawed, overly expensive and irreversible solution with no way of reversing a flawed judgement, no way of dealing with the flaws existent in the current system and no rationale other than defining them as human garbage or emotional appeals.

Face it Epi, you're grasping at fundamental straws. Such a shame you've got an interest (working with the prison system) in perpetuating it.

Pity.

May I also add that if our Jail system wasnt filled to the point of bursting open with majiuana, coke, and crack users..and was actually used for what it should be used for (i.e. keeping the violent and murderous off of the streets) then I would argue that breakouts would be far and few between.

Instead we have it slam full of prostitutes and Johns, drug dealers and drug addicts, people who have commited minor offenses, etc...etc...all in the name of a handful of private organizations making profit from concessions and such.

I argue that privatising the judicial system, and making every god damned thing we can think of illegal has made our system of justice an enemy of the people. We dont even need half of the laws on the books right now.

[Epimethean]

Please make certain you know the difference between jail and prison here, Jer.

[reverendjeremiah]

You seem to think that I am suggesting that, should a man be convicted of vehicular manslaughter, I want him to go straight to the chair. Try to be a bit more realistic. If someone has raped more than one person, has killed more than one person, and especially if that person has done so, been imprisoned, subsequently released, and repeated the offense, get that fucker out of the ranks of the living.

Im not trying to get mean on this thread. In fact, I want to take a pause just for the moment and thank you, and everyone else involved on this thread for making this such an eye opening and excellent discussion on Execution. I have the utmost respect for you, so please do not take what I say as being mean, shouting, or disrespectful.

Isnt that the problem with typing discussions? we can never get the emotional intent of its poster. As far as I am concerned, I am cool and easy going on this thread.

with that said, I wish you should have pointed that out earlier. It would have cleared many things up for me.

If you did post that info earlier, then I apologize for not seeing it or remembering it...for the sake of a wonderful discussion in good faith

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Please make certain you know the difference between jail and prison here, Jer.

I am well aware of the differences. I am also well aware that, in this day and age of over populated prison population, that the traditional definitions of "jail" and "Prison" are starting to be blurred together. temporary facilities have been holding long term prisoners now since the early 80's. When I was thrown in jail for growing marijuanna, there was one person in the holding pen who had been given 30 years, and he had already spent 5 of them in that holding pen that was traditionally called "jail" and not a prison.

the two are merging together with the advent of newer and newer laws that are needlessly legislated by politicians on both sides of the coin from the urging of the prison industry private sectors.

More laws = more inmates = more $$$ to these private prison company

[Epimethean]

This may have been posted in this thread already, but it is a well-thought out, well articulated recent reflection on the death penalty.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/arch...ce/245101/

[reverendjeremiah]

You sound like someone who has never known anyone who has been raped, met anyone who has lost someone to murder, or seen how the criminal legal system works. Sweet naivete-but naivete nonetheless.

I have been through the system before on manufacture marijuanna. They tried to pin murders on me during my interrogations and during my trial..the judge wouldnt hear of it since they had no evidence to support it and cut them off short. that, of course, didnt stop the media from blowing it all out of proprtion.

So, you tell me, have you ever had your name on the front page suggesting that they were considering you a suspect for murders that you didnt commit? Did youhave you little brother get his ass beat by kids at school every day after the media smeared your name? Did you ever have your parents house picketed by high school kids with "Your son is a murderer!" and such?

If not, then please back off on the suggestions that I am naive...you didnt know any better, and it is something that I do not like bringing up. But trust me when I say that I PERSONALLY know something of the judicial system, and I will tell you that I will not trust it one bit.