There is an alternative to using embryonic stem cells.

Quote:Scientists have invented an efficient way to produce apparently safe alternatives to human embryonic stem cells without destroying embryos, a long-sought step toward bypassing the moral morass surrounding one of the most promising fields in medicine.

A team of researchers at the Harvard Stem Cell Institute in Boston published a series of experiments Thursday showing that synthetic biological signals can quickly reprogram ordinary skin cells into entities that appear virtually identical to embryonic stem cells. Moreover, the same strategy can then turn those cells into ones that could be used for transplants.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...id=topnews

These cells would provide all the medical advantages without the controversy.

Sorry. Complicating the process so that superstitious twits can be comfortable is unacceptable. These embryos are to be DISCARDED. They are not babies. The best they could hope for is to remain frozen.

Far better to put them to some useful purpose on their way to the dumpster.

Here is an interesting article on stem cell research:

http://online.worldmag.com/2010/10/18/fo...ell-money/

Quote:WISHING: What stood out to you?

DUDT: There’s a growing gap between embryonic and adult stem cell research. The NFL is to adult stem cell research as peewee football is to embryonic stem cell research. Adult stem cell research is making tremendous advances while embryonic research seems to be still in the, well, embryonic phase. And the gap appears to be widening.

RAY: Not only is the gap widening, but it’s widening in multiple areas such as muscle and tendon therapy, mammary cell research, pancreatic cell research, heart cell therapy, brain cell therapy, and much more.

WISHING: What does this mean in practical terms?

RAY: I get the clear sense that the scientific advancements in the adult stem cell area are so far outpacing those in the embryonic stem cell field that those of us concerned about the ethics of embryonic research will simply shift our arguments to highlighting the superior efficacy of adult stem cell therapy. Moreover, private investment/R&D money seems to be breaking toward adult stem cell research because that arena is demonstrating superior profit potential. Embryonic researchers at the summit appeared to be worried that federal government money is beginning to shift to adult stem cell research as well.

(October 19, 2010 at 11:30 am)theophilus Wrote: Here is an interesting article on stem cell research:

http://online.worldmag.com/2010/10/18/fo...ell-money/

Quote:WISHING: What stood out to you?

DUDT: There’s a growing gap between embryonic and adult stem cell research. The NFL is to adult stem cell research as peewee football is to embryonic stem cell research. Adult stem cell research is making tremendous advances while embryonic research seems to be still in the, well, embryonic phase. And the gap appears to be widening.

RAY: Not only is the gap widening, but it’s widening in multiple areas such as muscle and tendon therapy, mammary cell research, pancreatic cell research, heart cell therapy, brain cell therapy, and much more.

WISHING: What does this mean in practical terms?

RAY: I get the clear sense that the scientific advancements in the adult stem cell area are so far outpacing those in the embryonic stem cell field that those of us concerned about the ethics of embryonic research will simply shift our arguments to highlighting the superior efficacy of adult stem cell therapy. Moreover, private investment/R&D money seems to be breaking toward adult stem cell research because that arena is demonstrating superior profit potential. Embryonic researchers at the summit appeared to be worried that federal government money is beginning to shift to adult stem cell research as well.

So the best way towards medical breakthroughs is being side tracked and potentially completely derailed to soothe the sentiments of religious nutters!

Makes my blood boil.

Worldmag.org huh Theo?

"Xtian News."


"Just like regular news only phony!"

(October 19, 2010 at 1:17 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: So the best way towards medical breakthroughs is being side tracked and potentially completely derailed to soothe the sentiments of religious nutters!
Makes my blood boil.

It is beginning to look as if the best way towards medical breakthroughs is the use of adult stem cells.

(October 20, 2010 at 1:18 pm)theophilus Wrote:

(October 19, 2010 at 1:17 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: So the best way towards medical breakthroughs is being side tracked and potentially completely derailed to soothe the sentiments of religious nutters!
Makes my blood boil.

It is beginning to look as if the best way towards medical breakthroughs is the use of adult stem cells.

Spoken like someone who has absolutely no idea what he is talking about.

Quick crash course in stem cells:
There are human embryonic stem cells (hESC) found in the blastula. For this bit we will look into the pluripotent, not totipotent cells.

There are adult stem cells that are of limited multipotency to unipotency, making them highly specific and for the most part useless.

Then there are induced pluripotent stem cells (iPS) which are somatic cells regressed into a (pluripotent embryonic stem cell)-like cell using viruses and an incomplete batch of chemicals.

The problem with iPS is that we need to verify and complete the transition to an actual hESC analogue - however that is difficult if you don't have the hESC's to compare to.

hESC's are a step into perfecting iPS, a step that can be verified and manipulated to develop protocols and procedures for manipulation.

So no, adult stem cells (ASC)'s are not at all a way to go.

iPS are (because they're tailored for an individuals genome). But you cannot verify an iPS is identical in parameters to an hESC without an hESC to compare against.

So is it more morally right to have thousands and thousands of people die for diseases that could be treated with stem cells in the future, by withholding treatment?

This is why I disagree with Christian ethics. They just do not compute.

It's why I don't think xtian ethics are ethical.

(October 21, 2010 at 9:56 pm)Minimalist Wrote: It's why I don't think xtian ethics are ethical.

A system of ethics that is based on a fixed deception can not possibly be adaptable enough to both survive for long and continue to provide such moral guidance as would genuinely minimize harm and maximize human welfare. Eventually, any moral purpose for which it might have once been conceived would be superceded by the need to protect its own central deception in order to ensure of its own continued survival. Christian "ethics" has been haunted by this need since 1600s, when various branches of the religion attempted to reconcile periperal parts of the fixed deception with the intellectual progresses being made in the age of enlightenment. Christian "ethics" has been completely consumed by the demands of protecting its own central deception since the middle of 19th century, when it become clear that new discoveries fundamentally exposed the deception to its core. The resurgence of christian fundamentalism and bible literalism in the 20th century is just the menifestation of Christianit's total bandonment of any ethical mission to refocus completely on the protection of the fixed iron age deceptions of the old and new testaments.